Ask a Bible college Student

[Catholic_Lady]

Then you're not talking about genetic uniqueness at all, you're referring to the potential to develop into a human being. You should go with that, you'll be on much firmer footing and it serves your purpose just as well. That still leaves the clone issue open though, since a shed human cell CAN develop into a human being, with some help.

Again, I'm talking about the genetic uniqueness between a mom and her unborn baby and showing that it's a separate set of DNA from her and is therefore not part of her body or part of anyone else's body, and is different from our own cells that naturally shed off. When we shed cells, that's part of our cells coming off... that's not the entirety of them being destroyed like what happens in abortion.   

And I'm definitely not talking about the "potential to develop into a human being". It makes no sense for there to ever be a point in time where we were anything other than human and then magically became human at some arbitrary point. My existence began at conception, and I have been a human since that time.   

As for cloning a cell that sheds off our body, I don't know what needs to be done to it in a lab to make it "come alive" if you will, and start growing and multiplying. But I'd say at the exact point that it starts to do that is the point that you have another live human being right there. At that point it ceases from being a dead skin cell and has a life of its own.

[Edwardo Piet]

So it's okay to kill identical twins because their DNA isn't unique? Or one of them, at least?

You already know the answer to that is no. The reason their DNA is identical is because they are identical twins. But their DNA, as identical twins, exists no where else in the world. They were never "part of" their mom's body. They are their own separate entity from her, but have the same DNA as each other bc they are identical twins.

They were part of their mom's body originally and also partly their father's sperm originally.

Are they completely separate DNA? Yes.... but the DNA in the left side of my body is also completely separate DNA to the DNA on the right side of my body... it's still all part of me... and originally we were all partly our mother's egg and partly our father's sperm.

[Edwardo Piet]

And all DNA is made of atoms and all atoms are ultimately connected to all atoms and part of the universal whole that is the universe...

There's no sense in which we were never part of our mother and father.

[Minimalist]

There are close to 8 billion people crawling around on this planet and generally fucking it up royally.  I'm curious why you think there should be even more?

[Catholic_Lady]

You already know the answer to that is no. The reason their DNA is identical is because they are identical twins. But their DNA, as identical twins, exists no where else in the world. They were never "part of" their mom's body. They are their own separate entity from her, but have the same DNA as each other bc they are identical twins.

They were part of their mom's body originally and also partly their father's sperm originally.

Are they completely separate DNA? Yes.... but the DNA in the left side of my body is also completely separate DNA to the DNA on the right side of my body... it's still all part of me... and originally we were all partly our mother's egg and partly our father's sperm.

It's not her dna. Meaning, it's not her. Also meaning it's not part of her.  

Let's say a woman's unborn baby came out of her uterus and committed and crime, and then went back inside her uterus. The detectives found the criminal's DNA at the scene. If they tested the mom, they would conclude that she was not the criminal. Because it was not her DNA they found. It was dna from another person. Person also being another key word here. They can differentiate between the dna of a human and of any other animals/species. 

Silly example, but I'm trying to make a point here lol.

[Catholic_Lady]

And all DNA is made of atoms and all atoms are ultimately connected to all atoms and part of the universal whole that is the universe...

There's no sense in which we were never part of our mother and father.

I mean, sure, we are all "part of" our mom and dad in a way, but not in a way that is any different now than when we were still unborn babies.

[Catholic_Lady]

There are close to 8 billion people crawling around on this planet and generally fucking it up royally.  I'm curious why you think there should be even more?

It's not that I think there should be more. It's that if there's people already in existence, we shouldn't go around killing them to bring numbers down.

[Minimalist]

That's the fucking church talking.  "Oh, god this and god that."  Fuck god.  There is serious environmental being done to this planet and 'god' ain't going to do shit about it.

I regard the rights of actual people to be superior to the alleged rights of prospective people.  And if they don't want to have a kid they don't need some busy-body sticking their nose in and insisting they give birth to it.

[Pat Mustard]

The op seems to have abandoned the thread. I wonder was it all the fallacies in his holy book thrown at him or the fact we didn't immediately bow down and worship yhwh?

[Faith No More]

...And that is why I am ethically opposed to IVF. Because that's a human life. Whether or not you go to jail depends on the law. It's legal, so no. I doubt you would have done that if it was an illegal thing to do.

You dodged the question, but I'll rephrase to make it clearer. Do you personally believe my wife and I deserve to go to jail, regardless of the law?