Catholics VS Protestants Debate Thread

[Drich]

So, if you had to choose Catholicism or a Protestant denomination, which would you choose?

I've often thought that if I had to be a Christian, I'd be a Catholic.  I have a lot of respect for orthodoxy.

Noooooo!!!!

I mean it's all good.

[Edward John]

Ultimately my goal isn't to win an argument, but to win a soul for Christ.

I was going to do this after a few weeks, but I’ll do it now because I have time. Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56). The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus, protestants see this as symbolic, but Jesus said this IS my body this, IS my blood not, this is a symbol of my body, this is a symbol of my blood.
 
 

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Edward Johns Wrote: ·        If Jesus intended for Christianity to be exclusively a “religion of the book,” why did He wait 1400 years before showing somebody how to build a printing press? 
 
I'm not sure what you're saying, are you implying that books didn't exist before the printing press?
No, books did exist before the printing press, but the Bible was rare, most people at that time did not own a bible except church fathers and some rich people The Bible Was Not Available to Individual Believers until the 15th Century. The predicament caused by this state of affairs is that millions upon millions of Christians who lived prior to the 15th century would have been left without a final authority, left to flounder spiritually, unless by chance they had access to a hand-copied Bible.   "Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the Word of Christ." (Rom. 10:17). Christ also gave to His Church His guarantee that He would always be with it, never allowing it to fall into error. God, therefore, did not abandon His people and make them rely upon the invention of the printing press to be the means whereby they would come to a saving knowledge of His Son. Instead, He gave us a divinely established, infallible teacher, the Catholic Church, to provide us with the means to be informed of the Good News of the Gospel – and to be informed correctly.
Edward Johns Wrote: ·        If Christianity is a “book religion,” how did it flourish during the first 1500 years of Church history when the vast majority of people were illiterate?

“It wasn't that people were illiterate, it's just that many couldn't read Latin.” Untrue, They couldn’t read anything in general, For the first 1500 years of Christianity, most people couldn't read or write. Every stained glass window and statue in medieval Churches told a story. Illiterate people could look at the stained glass pictures on the windows of the Churches and understand the story. So sola scriptura didn’t even exist at that time, but the Christians submitted to the teaching authority of the church.
Edward Johns Wrote: ·        Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book? The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not taught anywhere in the Bible.

“I do recall Jesus being tempted by the Devil and Jesus quoting nothing but scripture at him, sounds like he was utilizing Sola Scripture to me.” That doesn’t prove that Jesus was instructing Scripture only, just because Jesus was quoting scripture neither did Jesus say anything about sola scripture. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Did Not Exist Prior to the 14th Century. Fact: The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not taught anywhere in the Bible.
 
Edward Johns Wrote: ·        Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?

The Bible is not just a book it is the Word, using that context you'll find the Apostles mention the Word quite frequently.  True, The Bible is the word of God, but where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?
 
 
Edward Johns Wrote: ·        Where in the Bible do we find an inspired and infallible list of books that should belong in the Bible? (e.g., Is the Bible’s Table of Contents inspired?)

The book of Isaiah is essentially the bible in compact form. Now your joking right?, The book of Isaiah is the book of Isaiah not the entire Bible. The Catholic Church gave you the Bible through the guidance of the HolyGhost. The list of books in the Bible. Catholic churches Synod of Rome (382 A.D) and the Catholic churches Councils of Hippo (393 A.D) and Catholic churches Council of Carthage (397 A.D) that we find a definitive list of canonical books being drawn up, and each of these Councils acknowledged the very same list of books. From this point on, there is in practice no dispute about the canon of the Bible, the only exception being the so-called Protestant Reformers, who entered upon the scene in 1517, an unbelievable 11 centuries later.
Edward Johns Wrote: ·        some Protestants claim that Jesus condemned all oral tradition (e.g., Matt 15:3, 6; Mark 7:813). If so, why does He bind His listeners to oral tradition by telling them to obey the scribes and Pharisees when they “sit on Moses’ seat” (Matt 23:2)? 5) Some Protestants claim that St. Paul condemned all oral tradition (Col 2:8). If so, why does he tell the Thessalonians to “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thes 2:15) and praises the Corinthians because they “hold firmly to the traditions” (1 Cor 11:2)?

Well since this question is based off protestant "claims" im going to skip it since protestant beliefs vary, personally I'm not sure what you mean by the condemnation of oral tradition.  The Point not all tradition are bad, the Catholic Tradition is Holy handed down by the apostles, The question to ask when examining any particular tradition is “where did it come from?”  Its value depends on its origin.  Did it come from Jesus?  His apostles?  Some pious believers who lived centuries later?  The traditions Paul passed down were divine (from the Lord) and apostolic traditions, like the meaning and importance of the Eucharist (1 Corinthians 11:23-34) or the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus (I Cor 15:3-11) and so were of the utmost importance.
Edward Johns Wrote: ·        If the meaning of the Bible is so clear—so easily interpreted—and if the Holy Spirit leads every Christian to interpret it for themselves, then why are there over 33,000 Protestant denominations, and millions of individual Protestants, all interpreting the Bible differently?

One word; Tradition. Tradition doesn’t answer the question since, protestants are Bible only and anti Tradition.

There is a story in the bible where the Hebrews would gather manna (bread that fell from heaven) every day, for they were expressly forbidden to store any of it, because it would be rotten by the next day. True

The manna represented the Word of God, did not Jesus state:

"I am the true bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will not die as your ancestors did (even though they ate the manna) but will live forever." True


Jesus is the word made flesh right? Yes


How this applies to your question is that each age of the church had a measure of light to walk in, and as the ages progressed they received a little more light (Revelation). 

If I were to make an analogy I'd say picture a dark room, if I a shone a weak light into the room, you'd be able to see into it but not very well, as I turn up the brightness more will be revealed. So where you weren't able to make out much initially, each subsequent person that comes along will see more than the last. But how come? All is revealed in the Bible right and the Bible is all you need to know about Christianity right? If the Holy Ghost guides each individual shouldn’t they reach all the same conclusion?

Martin Luther had part of the picture, he did NOT have all of it. after his death the majority of his followers held to the TRADITIONS of Martin Luther's teachings and formed the Lutheran denomination which held to the doctrine of Justification and they never progressed to sanctification.  The Traditions of Martian Luther are not Holy because they are not apostolic.

Therefore their doctrine (manna) is rotten since it is from days past.

The same goes for the Methodist denomination. John Wesley came along with Justification AND Sanctification, but after his death his followers held to their traditions and formed the Methodist organization, and their doctrine too became rotten. They never progressed to the baptism of the holy spirit, that was the Pentecostals... see the pattern?
Jesus Explained The Eucharist The Day After Feeding The 5000" Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him." John 6:53-56
 Jesus Gave Us The Eucharist For All Time The Night Before He Died "While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins. " Matthew 26:26-28
 Today Some Cannot Accept The Gift Just As It Was In The Time Of Jesus 'But there are some of you who do not believe.' Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, 'For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.' As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. Jesus then said to the Twelve, 'Do you also want to leave?' Simon Peter answered him, 'Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.'" John 6:64-68
 
Jesus Explained That Eternal Life Is Gained Through The Spirit - Not Through The Flesh
Jesus' Flesh And Blood Are Of Divine Nature (Spirit) And Not Of This World (Flesh)
"It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life."  John 6:64-68
 
Not only bread and wine – Not only Crackers And Grape Juice, Jesus Gave Us The Eucharist To Nourish Us Until He Returns, Come Home To HIS Church And Accept HIS Holy Flesh And Blood
 "Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." Luke 10:16
 Edward Johns Wrote: ·        If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of Christian truth, why does the Bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)?

I think that you're just playing on words here. No Not Really.

If the Bible is the Word of God, and Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, that makes the Word the foundation of the church. No,  the Word is the Word, Not the Church, the bible does not say the  word is the foundation of the church that’s unbiblical and against sola scriptura. Note that in I Timothy 3:15 we see, not the Bible, but the Church – that is, the living community of believers founded upon St. Peter and the Apostles and headed by their successors – called "the pillar and ground of the truth.
Edward Johns Wrote: ·        If the Bible is as clear as Martin Luther claimed, why was he the first one to interpret it the way he did and why was he frustrated at the end of his life that “there are now as many doctrines as there are heads”?

Already touched on this. You nearly did. Luther interpreted the way he did because he was evil, Luther blasphemed God. He said “Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well of Jacob about whom St. John wrote. ‘Was not everyone around Him murmuring: What has He been doing with her?’ After that, with Mary Magdalene, and then with the woman taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus, even Christ, who was so righteous, had to be guilty of fornication before He died.”
Don’t you think that the drunk Christ, having imbibed too much at the Last Supper, bewildered His disciples with his empty prattling? 

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Catholics don't worship statues or worship saints, that's a common myth among protestants.
First, where are you getting worship? The definition of pray is "1) to utter petition to God, 2) to make a fervent request, 3) to beseech, implore, 4) to make a devout or earnest request for." Where in the definition do you see the word worship or anything like worship? To pray is to make a request or petition to God. When we pray to God, we are uttering a petition to Him, and when we pray to Mary and the saints we are making an earnest or devout request for prayers from Mary and the saints. In the medieval times, when people would say "I pray you would do this," were they worshipping whoever they were talking to?
        
The Seventh General Council shows the difference between venerating Mary and worshipping God. It showed that Latria - is adoration that is given to the trinity alone, and always refers to God (John 16:2, Romans 9:4, Heb 9:1-6), and hyper-dulia - which is veneration to Mary. There is a difference. The bible also shows this difference. Take a look at Exodus 18:7, saying, "then Moses went out to meet his father in law, and bowed down and kissed him." This is veneration.
      By praying through Mary, we are not taking away focus from Jesus. In Luke 1:46-49 Mary says, "My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed." Praying through Mary magnifies the focus on Jesus and magnifies Him. It's like asking someone for prayers. When you ask someone to pray for you, are you worshipping them? It's no different with Mary. When we pray to Mary, we ask her to pray for us to God, and her soul magnifies Him. Then, we add some respect, or veneration, not worship. If you knew someone was praying for you would you not thank them?
         Thus, we do not worship Mary or take our focus off God to put on Mary, but we pray through Mary, and venerate her, not worship her.
God Bless!

[Doubting Thomas]

So when are we going to start arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

[Drich]

Ultimately my goal isn't to win an argument, but to win a soul for Christ.

I was going to do this after a few weeks, but I’ll do it now because I have time. Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56). The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus, protestants see this as symbolic, but Jesus said this IS my body this, IS my blood not, this is a symbol of my body, this is a symbol of my blood.
 

Respectfully it's like out of that whole 60+ verse chapter, all you took from it was 3 verses than you cut and paste your own explanation compiled out of other cut and paste scraps... This is what Christ refers to as being a 'blind guide.'

why not start with your exegesis at the beginning? at the verse where the whole day's teaching on this matter starts???

Verse:22 The next day came. Some people had stayed on the other side of the lake. They knew that Jesus did not go with his followers in the boat. They knew that the followers had left in the boat alone. And they knew it was the only boat that was there. 23 But then some boats from Tiberias came and landed near the place where the people had eaten the day before. This was where they had eaten the bread after the Lord gave thanks. 24 The people saw that Jesus and his followers were not there now. So they got into the boats and went to Capernaum to find Jesus.

25 The people found Jesus on the other side of the lake. They asked him, “Teacher, when did you come here?”

26 He answered, “Why are you looking for me? Is it because you saw miraculous signs? The truth is, you are looking for me because you ate the bread and were satisfied.

So Christ starts out the day and people came to him right off the loaves and fishes miracle. So basically they are hungry again. So it seems Jesus sees a teachable moment:

27 But earthly food spoils and ruins. So don’t work to get that kind of food. But work to get the food that stays good and gives you eternal life. The Son of Man will give you that food. He is the only one qualified by God the Father to give it to you.”

So... in your Eucharist doctrine... Is the priest who serves the Holy Communion transfigured into Jesus somehow? No?!?!? you say?!?!?! REALLY?!?!?!?!?!

If your priest is not Jesus... Then are you really doing anything that the protestants are not doing when they go through the motions?
28 The people asked Jesus, “What does God want us to do?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work God wants you to do is this: to believe in the one he sent.”

30 So the people asked, “What miraculous sign will you do for us? If we can see you do a miracle, then we will believe you. What will you do? 31 Our ancestors were given manna to eat in the desert. As the Scriptures say, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”

32 Jesus said, “I can assure you that Moses was not the one who gave your people bread from heaven. But my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 God’s bread is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 The people said, “Sir, from now on give us bread like that.”
28-34 So the people Christ spoke to understood they must receive this bread from Him Alone.. So next verse they ask Him to give them this bread this is what he said:

35 Then Jesus said, “I am the bread that gives life. No one who comes to me will ever be hungry. No one who believes in me will ever be thirsty. 36 I told you before that you have seen me, and still you don’t believe. 37 The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them. 38 I came down from heaven to do what God wants, not what I want. 39 I must not lose anyone God has given me. But I must raise them up on the last day. This is what the one who sent me wants me to do. 40 Everyone who sees the Son and believes in him has eternal life. I will raise them up on the last day. This is what my Father wants.”

Now in any of that has Christ given the 'bread yet?' Don't forget verse 27 'work for bread that will never make you hungry again, only I can give it to you... No otherwise the following dialog would not make any sense..
But first a review so we are on the same page
28The people ask what we must do to get it..
29 Jesus says believe in Him
30 they ask how can we know you are God
31-33 I can give you bread
34 give us this bread
35 I am the bread
36-40 Jesus tells what must be done first, ends with the resurrection on the last day.
Again... Still no bread.

41 Some Jews began to complain about Jesus because he said, “I am the bread that comes down from heaven.” 42 They said, “This is Jesus. We know his father and mother. He is only Joseph’s son. How can he say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

people begin to doubt because they knew where he came from

43 But Jesus said, “Stop complaining to each other. 44 The Father is the one who sent me, and he is the one who brings people to me. I will raise them up on the last day. Anyone the Father does not bring to me cannot come to me. 45 It is written in the prophets: ‘God will teach them all.’[d] People listen to the Father and learn from him. They are the ones who come to me. 46 I don’t mean that there is anyone who has seen the Father. The only one who has ever seen the Father is the one who came from God. He has seen the Father.

Jesus broke up the BS with reassureance of what he had just said and begins his own review:

47 “I can assure you that anyone who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread that gives life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna God gave them in the desert, but it didn’t keep them from dying. 50 Here is the bread that comes down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will never die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my body. I will give my body so that the people in the world can have life.”

Then at the end of the review He expands with this fact, in that his body is the bread of life.

52 Then the Jews began to argue among themselves. They said, “How can this man give us his body to eat?”

53 Jesus said, “Believe me when I say that you must eat the body of the Son of Man, and you must drink his blood. If you don’t do this, you have no real life. 54 Those who eat my body and drink my blood have eternal life. I will raise them up on the last day. 55 My body is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Those who eat my body and drink my blood live in me, and I live in them.

Then we have your verses properly framed out. In that unless Christ offers you your Eucharist himself you are drinking grape juice and eating bread. We know this because the above verses all of that has just been played out. Not to mention so far no 'body/bread' has been offered and no fruit of the vine/blood has been offered. We are only told to this point we must work for this bread, and that Christ will raise us when he does this bread offered will be our eternal life.

Still with me?

57 “The Father sent me. He lives, and I live because of him. So everyone who eats me will live because of me. 58 I am not like the bread that your ancestors ate. They ate that bread, but they still died. I am the bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

59 Jesus said all this while he was teaching in the synagogue in the city of Capernaum.

The bold big lettered part.. that is the final nail in the coffin.

I am not adding anything nor taking anything away. I am not photoshoping verses together from all over the bible. I started with the teaching Jesus had for that day and I ended with one of the last things He said on the subject. So review again:

27 'work for bread that will never make you hungry again, only I can give it to you...
28The people ask what we must do to get it..
29 Jesus says believe in Him
30 they ask how can we know you are God
31-33 I can give you bread
34 give us this bread
35 I am the bread
36-40 Jesus tells what must be done first, ends with the resurrection on the last day.
Again... Still no bread. We have a resurrection on the last day for the believers, but no bread of life.

41-42 people began to grumble and doubt

43-51 Jesus reassured the people of God's promise, did a review of what was said, finally and revealed his body was the bread.. Even so did not offer it at this point.

52-55 Jesus makes the declaration unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood you will not have eternal life.
Still not offered even after the crowd asks for it.

57-59 This is the key but only if you remember verse 40. Verse 40 is the point where Jesus says all who believe just believe will be
raised on that last day. So with that in mind we look at 'the bread your ancestors ate.' Meaning the mana from the exodus.. They ate the mana and still died. Now couple that with your Eucharist doctrine that says your priests offer... do people die who eat the bread your priests offer??? Then they do not offer the bread of life Jesus is describing in 52-55.. Because they died just like the 'ancestors died.' Jesus CLEARLY states those who do eat the bread of life will NOT die...
Now to make matters worse for your doctrine... Look at verse 40 and ask what did Jesus say? He will resurrect everyone who simply believes on that last day of judgement.
????Wuuuutttt???? How can we be resurrected if we have not died? meaning if we had access to the bread of life in this life, how is it we need Resurrection???
That's because we do not have access to the bread of life in this life. It according to Christ will be offered in the Next life AFTER our Resurrection.
58 I am not like the bread that your ancestors ate. They ate that bread, but they still died. I am the bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.”


You eat bread and you still die.. Do you understand? your euchrist is just bread. How do I know, because of catholic cemeteries, AND the fact that only Christ can offer this bread... So when is the only time you will be infront of Christ inorder for him to offer you this bread??? Your Judgement.That is when Christ will offer you the bread of life if you are indeed found worthy.

lets get through this before we get into the second 1/2. Meaning before we bring up all the other verses you guys photoshop together for your doctrine lets end any and all doubt/questions with this contextual reading First.

[Minimalist]

Ultimately my goal isn't to win an argument, but to win a soul for Christ.

Then you are shit outta luck....because while arguments exist the same can't be demonstrated for souls and christ.

[Tonus]

Holy shit Drich went all Patrick Swayze Roadhouse on this guy.

[Edward John]

My Dear, Drich
                   Here let me show you in the scripture Mary being the queen of heaven. Lets use Protestant KJV Bible to show you.

Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.

[6]  Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)

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The Son of Man will give you that food. He is the only one qualified by God the Father to give it to you.”

Is not in the Bible.

You eat bread and you still die.. Do you understand?

What do you mean die? The soul lives on you don't actually die, just your body the bible does not say your body will not die.

Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54

and I will raise him up at the last day-That is the body remains in the grave until the resurrection  but the soul goes to heaven, purgatory or to damnation when you die.

[Drich]

Holy shit Drich went all Patrick Swayze Roadhouse on this guy.

Believe it or not out of all the time I spent debating/answering questions about Catholics ( a topic that came up alot in the 5+ years i spent at CF.com) This is the first time I have ever heard or used this argument... It was one of those divine inspirational moments. I was writing and learning stuff at the same time...

It wasn't me.. I just contextually read what was already written and showed the contrast between what the R/C religion says and what the bible says. I spoke were the bible speaks and remained silent where it is silent.

The net result is the bible describes a completely different process than what religion says. (for salvation/eternal life.) This is true about many things across the board with ALL Religions. That is why i tell you guys all the time religion will not save you.(it will not condemn you either, that all depends on you and what God has given you and what you did with it.) Which why I give you a hard time when you try and paint what it is I do here with a religious brush. (meaning assign typical religious answers to me/my arguments.) 90% of the time I am often considered more heretical than you guys by religious people. All for bypassing a 'religious/photoshoped' reading of the bible for a contextual one.

I found that contextual reading often times neuters the power of the religious Establishment and puts the believer in Direct contact with God with absolutely no middle man, no rules to obey in exchange for righteousness, none of the stuff one typically associates with God.

God simply want Your absolute best, no bar or standard just bring all that you have and offer it. The awesome thing about that?? You/we are slaves to sin, so we don't have much of anything to offer, at least in the beginning. Just your devotion. If you can do that, you will be raised per everything said that last post on that last day. But the realy realy cool thing is if you give what you have to God (before the end of your life) Openly and honestly he will give you more. then he expects that you double down and give that back/reinvest it, and on it goes. till you reach your capacity.

I have tried to share ALL that god has given me and not a 1/4 way through I often times get called a braggart or liar. but I will honestly say it is well more than you can imagine for yourself.

But i digress..

The point I am making is 'take note of the contrast' Observe where a 'religious man' sources his material/doctrine, and where/how I ultimately will do the same. note all of the cutting and pasting needed to establish a principle in a religious argument, then look how I unravel it by just re framing the cut and pasted words back into their original contextual passages. When I teach I break down whole chapters and even books and read them through to explain a principle so you know the examples given are indeed what the authors meant as we read word for word inorder like I did here.

That is the difference between biblical Christianity or a bible based follower of Christ and a religious person.

[Drich]

My Dear, Drich
                   Here let me show you in the scripture Mary being the queen of heaven.

Do you know how to have a topical conversation?
I have left you alot to look at and discuss. I know the typical catholic answer to a question he can not answer is 'god works in mysterious ways or to evade it all together... Is this what you are trying to do here?

Lets use Protestant KJV Bible to show you.

Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.

[6]  Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)

Oh, noes...
You don't know the difference between a psalm/Tehillim, (“Praises”), a book of prophesy, and a book of the law...
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/...of-psalms/

Psalms are not Law, nor are they prophesy. They are songs and prayers of worship. They are man's expression to God. Not God's decree to man.

Even so lets look at your verses in proper american:
God,[c] your kingdom will last forever.
You use your authority for justice.
7
You love what is right and hate what is wrong.
So God, your God, chose you to be king,
giving you more joy and honor than anyone like you.[d]
8
From your clothes comes the wonderful smell of myrrh, aloes, and cassia.
In palaces decorated with ivory, you enjoy the music of stringed instruments.
9
Here are ladies of honor, daughters of kings.
Your bride[e] stands at your right side, wearing a gown decorated with the finest gold.

10
My lady,[f] listen to me.
Listen carefully and understand me.
Forget your people and your father’s family,
11
so that the king will be pleased with your beauty.
He will be your new husband,[g]
so you must honor him.
12
People from Tyre will bring you gifts.
Their richest people will try to win your friendship.

13
The princess is so beautiful in her gown,
like a pearl set in gold.
14
Clothed in beauty, she is led to the king,
followed by her bridesmaids.
15
Filled with joy and excitement,
they enter into the king’s palace.

16
Your sons will be kings like their ancestors.
You will make them rulers throughout the land.
17
You will be famous for generations.
People will praise you forever and ever.

If you want to make the arguement the 'bride' here is that of Christ then we need to establish (like say in the book of revelation chapters 18-22) the bride of Christ is the church. It is you and me. not mary. Mary's name is not mentioned. but the church is identified by name to be the bride of Christ.

What do you mean die? The soul lives on you don't actually die, just your body the bible does not say your body will not die.

Let's look and see what the bible/Jesus says sport..
27 But earthly food spoils and ruins. So don’t work to get that kind of food. But work to get the food that stays good and gives you eternal life. The Son of Man will give you that food. [color=#ff3333]He is the only one qualified by God the Father to give it to you.”

Did Jesus give you personally the bread of life????
No?!?!?

then I promise you... you will die.

Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54[

The Son of Man will give you that food. He is the only one qualified by God the Father to give it to you.”

Again... Did Jesus Give you this bread?

Do you doubt Jesus? do you doubt the contextual accuracy of this passage? Jesus said HE was the ONLY one qualified to GIVE YOU This Bread. This qualification was issued by the Father Himself.

So let me ask you again, DID YOU RECEIVE THE BREAD OF LIFE FOR CHRIST PERSONALLY?

Then you will die, and be raised again on that final day just like everyone else who believes. Raise from where? According to Christ from the grave. which again means you die.

The wage of sin is death we all owe a death for our sin, that is why we die. we all pay that due. However Christ conquered death and can resurrect us. Resurrection per Lazarus is not the same as eternal life. (as he died again) what is being offered in the way of the bread of life is administered after our resurrection.

[chimp3]

You catholic and non-catholic christers argue amongst yourselves. I know this much ... The christian narrative is a three act play. The Jews and the rest of us disappear in the third act. Thankfully , we will be waiting along time before their little horror show ending comes true. Like until the Milky Way collides with Andromeda.