Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long

[pocaracas]

Much has been said about NDEs...

But most people don't have them... only a few people do.
Most people report blackness, nothingness... deep sleep.

Some report something... something, that as you said is fairly consistent across cultures, across religions, across borders...
The commonality is the brain, huh? the human brain. Everyone who has reported an NDE was human, after all.

We can't really know what's going on inside a person's brain, specially as the docs are trying to restore that person to health, as she is dying of some organ failure or something.
So we're left with conjecture and some degree of likelihood... Should we accept the person's report at face value?
Can we rule out a self-manufactured experience? Can we rule out lying? Can we rule out hallucination?

There's a hospital (probably more than one) where they keep a piece of paper on a high shelf in the operating room. There's a number written on that piece of paper. They are waiting for someone to come back from that near-dead state and tell them the number.
Still waiting....... .... . . . . . . . .

[Little Rik]

I am currently an agnostic, and I do believe in evolution, the big bang, I am a big fan of Richard Dawkins, Laurence Krauss, Hawking, just to name a few atheists. I think that for the most part, science does its job when explaining the universe, and the world in general. However, the concept of Near Death Experiences and Out of Body Experiences cause me to scratch my head. Recently, Dr. Jeffrey Long published a book where he analyzed 1600 cases of NDEs and he claimed that they were all strikingly similar, regardless of cultural differences. For example, many people reported seeing a bright light, feeling a lot of love, meeting deceased relatives, having a life review. I am wondering if anyone on this site ever read the Dr. Jeffrey book proof of afterlife? In his book, he even debunks the ideas of the brain hallucinating, and the idea of chemicals being released in the brain to cause these experiences. About 95% of participants thought that these experiences felt more real than real life, and hallucinations cannot feel that real. Also, many claim to see A god, but without a particular title. If 1600 experiences are very similar, would you say that it could mean that these are in fact snapshots of an afterlife? I just don't know how they can be so consistent, and how they can be so life changing if they are not real. 
People, please go easy on me! This is my first day and I am not an atheist, but an agnostic. I just want to know your opinion on Dr. Jeffrey Long, and on NDEs and OBEs in general!
Thanks,
Violeta :-)

Hi Violeta.  

Here you will find an army of people who think that NDEs are hallucinations despite the fact that the brain is 100% off as seen by doctors.
So who suppose to bring those clear and sharp experiences other that the consciousness?
And if the consciousness can bring those experiences then life after the physical death is there and God is there turning atheism into a trifle of fantasy.  

[pocaracas]

Here you will find an army of people who think that NDEs are hallucinations despite the fact that the brain is 100% off as seen by doctors.

Riiight.... 100% off... measured by a proper fMRI scanner, huh?
Or by looking for a heartbeat?

[zebo-the-fat]

Near death experiences are one thing, what I want proof of is a post death experience.

[Little Rik]

Here you will find an army of people who think that NDEs are hallucinations despite the fact that the brain is 100% off as seen by doctors.

Riiight.... 100% off... measured by a proper fMRI scanner, huh?
Or by looking for a heartbeat?

I personally trust qualified doctors when they say that the brain is 100% off.
As a vehicles could not move when the fuel is cut off also the brain can not possibly work when his fuel (blood) is cut off.
Why trying to pretend that something can work when the fuel is cut off?
Crazy idea not supported by science as well.  

[FatAndFaithless]

I don't think I've ever heard a doctor say that a brain is "100% off".

[The Grand Nudger]

Thank god Riks here, we were in dire need of an expert as to what happens when a brain is 100% off.

[pocaracas]

Riiight.... 100% off... measured by a proper fMRI scanner, huh?
Or by looking for a heartbeat?

I personally trust qualified doctors when they say that the brain is 100% off.
As a vehicles could not move when the fuel is cut off also the brain can not possibly work when his fuel (blood) is cut off.
Why trying to pretend that something can work when the fuel is cut off?
Crazy idea not supported by science as well.  

Crazy idea.... a part of our body that can keep running when its oxygen supply stops for a while.
Apnea.... read about it.

[robvalue]

You're very welcome

Yes, the life changing element tells you nothing about the origin of the experience.

Human memory is extremely unreliable at the best of times, and even more so when trying to recall experiences under extreme stress. Given so many people know what they "should" experience, it's quite possible they modify/invent memories, perhaps without even knowing it, in order to conform. And really, the story the person tells is going to be an extremely bad model of what actually happened to their brain in reality. If we want to study anything, it has to be objectively, which will probably mean going directly to the brain.

There is a whole stupid equivocation thing going on with what "death" actually means, as well. Does it mean:

(1) Cannot come back to life

Or

(2) A set of criteria by which a person is judged to be "dead"

If we use definition 1, then anyone who is still alive did not die. If we use definition 2, there is no reason to think anyone cannot come back from being "dead" because it's purely an arbitrary human judgement. We don't know everything about the human body. People try and conflate the two, to make our human judgement counts as definition 1, then this gets defied by the person doing "the impossible" and coming back to life. It's the same kind of nonsense as when people try to define "supernatural" and such.

Oh look, right on cue, someone turned up to do exactly what I said and conflate the two. Thanks Rik.

I don't think I've ever heard a doctor say that a brain is "100% off".

You need to watch more Italian sitcoms or whatever it is Rik gets his information from.

[brewer]

Violeta, do you want there to be a conscious afterlife? Is yes, that's OK. But it does introduce bias when examining the antidotes and evidence.

But then, what do I know. I'm just an oxygen deprived bowl of petunias.

Edit: Shit, where are my manors? Welcome!