Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 3:48 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
#11
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
Much has been said about NDEs...

But most people don't have them... only a few people do.
Most people report blackness, nothingness... deep sleep.

Some report something... something, that as you said is fairly consistent across cultures, across religions, across borders...
The commonality is the brain, huh? the human brain. Everyone who has reported an NDE was human, after all.

We can't really know what's going on inside a person's brain, specially as the docs are trying to restore that person to health, as she is dying of some organ failure or something.
So we're left with conjecture and some degree of likelihood... Should we accept the person's report at face value?
Can we rule out a self-manufactured experience? Can we rule out lying? Can we rule out hallucination?

There's a hospital (probably more than one) where they keep a piece of paper on a high shelf in the operating room. There's a number written on that piece of paper. They are waiting for someone to come back from that near-dead state and tell them the number.
Still waiting....... .... . . . . . . . .
Reply
#12
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
(November 17, 2016 at 1:23 am)Violeta-1998 Wrote: I am currently an agnostic, and I do believe in evolution, the big bang, I am a big fan of Richard Dawkins, Laurence Krauss, Hawking, just to name a few atheists. I think that for the most part, science does its job when explaining the universe, and the world in general. However, the concept of Near Death Experiences and Out of Body Experiences cause me to scratch my head. Recently, Dr. Jeffrey Long published a book where he analyzed 1600 cases of NDEs and he claimed that they were all strikingly similar, regardless of cultural differences. For example, many people reported seeing a bright light, feeling a lot of love, meeting deceased relatives, having a life review. I am wondering if anyone on this site ever read the Dr. Jeffrey book proof of afterlife? In his book, he even debunks the ideas of the brain hallucinating, and the idea of chemicals being released in the brain to cause these experiences. About 95% of participants thought that these experiences felt more real than real life, and hallucinations cannot feel that real. Also, many claim to see A god, but without a particular title. If 1600 experiences are very similar, would you say that it could mean that these are in fact snapshots of an afterlife? I just don't know how they can be so consistent, and how they can be so life changing if they are not real. 
People, please go easy on me! This is my first day and I am not an atheist, but an agnostic. I just want to know your opinion on Dr. Jeffrey Long, and on NDEs and OBEs in general!
Thanks,
Violeta :-)


Hi Violeta.   Hi

Here you will find an army of people who think that NDEs are hallucinations despite the fact that the brain is 100% off as seen by doctors.
So who suppose to bring those clear and sharp experiences other that the consciousness?
And if the consciousness can bring those experiences then life after the physical death is there and God is there turning atheism into a trifle of fantasy.  Lightbulb
Reply
#13
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
(November 17, 2016 at 10:40 am)Little Rik Wrote: Here you will find an army of people who think that NDEs are hallucinations despite the fact that the brain is 100% off as seen by doctors.

Riiight.... 100% off... measured by a proper fMRI scanner, huh?
Or by looking for a heartbeat?
Reply
#14
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
Near death experiences are one thing, what I want proof of is a post death experience.
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

Reply
#15
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
(November 17, 2016 at 10:46 am)pocaracas Wrote:
(November 17, 2016 at 10:40 am)Little Rik Wrote: Here you will find an army of people who think that NDEs are hallucinations despite the fact that the brain is 100% off as seen by doctors.

Riiight.... 100% off... measured by a proper fMRI scanner, huh?
Or by looking for a heartbeat?


I personally trust qualified doctors when they say that the brain is 100% off.
As a vehicles could not move when the fuel is cut off also the brain can not possibly work when his fuel (blood) is cut off.
Why trying to pretend that something can work when the fuel is cut off?
Crazy idea not supported by science as well.  Wink
Reply
#16
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
I don't think I've ever heard a doctor say that a brain is "100% off".
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
Reply
#17
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
Thank god Riks here, we were in dire need of an expert as to what happens when a brain is 100% off.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#18
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
(November 17, 2016 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote:
(November 17, 2016 at 10:46 am)pocaracas Wrote: Riiight.... 100% off... measured by a proper fMRI scanner, huh?
Or by looking for a heartbeat?


I personally trust qualified doctors when they say that the brain is 100% off.
As a vehicles could not move when the fuel is cut off also the brain can not possibly work when his fuel (blood) is cut off.
Why trying to pretend that something can work when the fuel is cut off?
Crazy idea not supported by science as well.  Wink

Crazy idea.... a part of our body that can keep running when its oxygen supply stops for a while.
Apnea.... read about it.
Reply
#19
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
(November 17, 2016 at 2:29 am)robvalue Wrote: You're very welcome Smile

Yes, the life changing element tells you nothing about the origin of the experience.

Human memory is extremely unreliable at the best of times, and even more so when trying to recall experiences under extreme stress. Given so many people know what they "should" experience, it's quite possible they modify/invent memories, perhaps without even knowing it, in order to conform. And really, the story the person tells is going to be an extremely bad model of what actually happened to their brain in reality. If we want to study anything, it has to be objectively, which will probably mean going directly to the brain.

There is a whole stupid equivocation thing going on with what "death" actually means, as well. Does it mean:

(1) Cannot come back to life

Or

(2) A set of criteria by which a person is judged to be "dead"

If we use definition 1, then anyone who is still alive did not die. If we use definition 2, there is no reason to think anyone cannot come back from being "dead" because it's purely an arbitrary human judgement. We don't know everything about the human body. People try and conflate the two, to make our human judgement counts as definition 1, then this gets defied by the person doing "the impossible" and coming back to life. It's the same kind of nonsense as when people try to define "supernatural" and such.

Oh look, right on cue, someone turned up to do exactly what I said and conflate the two. Thanks Rik.

(November 17, 2016 at 10:55 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I don't think I've ever heard a doctor say that a brain is "100% off".

You need to watch more Italian sitcoms or whatever it is Rik gets his information from.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply
#20
RE: Question about the whole NDE concept and Dr. Jeffrey Long
Violeta, do you want there to be a conscious afterlife? Is yes, that's OK. But it does introduce bias when examining the antidotes and evidence.

But then, what do I know. I'm just an oxygen deprived bowl of petunias.

Edit: Shit, where are my manors? Welcome!
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The concept of atonement Foxaèr 11 1475 November 26, 2022 at 9:15 am
Last Post: Objectivist
  Why garden and not whole world? Fake Messiah 14 2426 March 21, 2019 at 12:02 pm
Last Post: Drich
  Another NDE Scam Exposed Minimalist 8 1045 April 15, 2018 at 8:41 am
Last Post: vorlon13
Brick An hour long stay WinterHold 3 944 November 25, 2017 at 10:22 am
Last Post: Brian37
  NDE of future war of demons masquerading as aliens scoobysnack 73 25660 June 12, 2017 at 10:10 pm
Last Post: Cecelia
  Long term advice when debating theists. Brian37 33 6834 May 6, 2015 at 12:06 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  I Really Hate The Concept Of Free Will Nope 84 13551 December 4, 2014 at 8:04 pm
Last Post: Schwa
  And if you are wrong , eternity is a long time. Artur Axmann 188 51592 June 6, 2014 at 12:29 pm
Last Post: archangle
  Concept of God (In-depth) peacemaker 18 3977 May 2, 2013 at 4:43 pm
Last Post: CleanShavenJesus
  Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole Rwandrall 320 223064 March 14, 2013 at 7:38 pm
Last Post: Angrboda



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)