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Trump won the white working-man vote..
RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
(November 18, 2016 at 6:36 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(November 18, 2016 at 6:20 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Wow, ok then. Holy crap. Apparently all you have to do is say "Muslim is a religion not a race" while still completely disagreeing with their discrimination, and you're already called out as a Trump supporter of some sort.

See, this right here is the problem. If anyone dare say anything even remotely veering off course of the liberal narrative, even if it's a fact, such as "Muslim is a religion not a race", you get shut down and put into a box.

Way to miss the point. Neither "Muslim" or "Jew" or "Christian" or "Hindu" or "Buddhist" or even "atheist" are a bloodline. Those are constructs people mostly get sold to by their parents at birth. People worldwide also leave one label for another in all directions.

BUT, that does not negate the reality that racism itself is still a very real thing and religion is the root to what drives it IN ALL DIRECTIONS. 

Jews were wrongfully targeted by a white Christian German majority and slaughtered to the tune of 6 million. But today's Jews in Israel DO see not only Jews as a race but Muslims as a race, and that intent for good or bad is what causes them to be divided. The liberal Muslims and Jews call it a race, or ethnic or culture, but all that is is a doge for both sides to avoid what is really causing it, religion itself.

The haters use those words too, race, culture ethnic on the right, the right wing Muslims, and right wing Jews and use it to create "otherism" to justify harm to their fellow humans.

No religion in the world is a race or ethnic or culture, and especially not a bloodline. If one were bound to a label by blood it would be physically impossible to leave that label. Our facial features and skin tones are a result of evolution. So it is stupid to equate any religion to a bloodline. I have seen people of all labels leave that club for another or none at all. But again, that does not magically mean racism isn't a real thing. It is unfortunately and religion is the biggest driver of it. Liberals are simiply the empathetic side of the coin, and conservatives are the selfish side of the coin, but both hide behind religion to excuse racism.

A religion would only drive racism if that particular religion taught that people of a certain race are lesser or deserve less rights. "Religion" in and of itself is merely an ideology that involves a belief in God/gods. There's nothing inherently racist about belief in God/gods. It all just depends on what that particular religion teaches about human dignity, etc. Unfortunately racism would exist even if religion didn't. It seems to be some sort of dark human condition to think lesser of those who are different from ourselves.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
(November 18, 2016 at 11:06 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Did you notice that Gary Johnson was getting three times the votes as Jill Stein?  You think a bunch of liberals went and voted for a Libertarian?  No, the fact of the matter is that there were equal if not more Republicans refusing to vote for their candidate as there were liberals voting third party.  Hell, some Republicans actually voted for Hillary.  

The third parties didn't syphon anything.  They were merely the dumping grounds for the frustrated voters.

There was an unprecedented number of Republicans denouncing Trump and refusing to vote for him, and she still couldn't beat that racist demagogue.  There is no one to blame except the DNC and Hillary

1. I never said that all Libertarians would have voted for Hillary.

2. A lot of people voted for Gary Johnson just because that's the third party name they heard most often. 

But if those people would have bothered to face the reality that either Trump or Hillary was going to win, I trust they would have made the sensible decision. 

Ultimately, Democrats not showing up is to blame, but a protest vote in this election was bereft of forethought. As I said already in this thread, there wasn't a single third party candidate on my ballot except the two hopeless fools we know about already. My district has over 300,000 people in it, and not a single third party candidate was up for anything. Not one. 

Yet, these clowns are somehow going to get elected POTUS? It's absurd. They don't do the work required to win votes where they could actually make a difference, which is locally, so why on earth would they deserve a vote for President of the United States? This is here in Southern California. There are plenty of open minded people here relative to the midwest and south. Yet they can't get on a local ballot here??? That's laziness. 

Until third parties lay the foundation upon which to build a viable political entity, they have no business getting anyone's POTUS vote. Hell, I'd vote Green for local office and if it was even somewhat close for a state or federal position, which means they would have done the work to get on the ballot and run a hard working campaign, they'd have my vote in a heartbeat. Instead, the most significant things they've managed to do is help Dubbya and Trump get elected.
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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
Trump won by 700,000 votes here in Texas. My voting for Hillary would not have been as useful as my vote for Johnson. At least the latter registered my dissatisfaction with both major-party candidates and the status quo they represent.

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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
(November 19, 2016 at 12:02 am)Opoponax Wrote: 1. I never said that all Libertarians would have voted for Hillary.

2. A lot of people voted for Gary Johnson just because that's the third party name they heard most often. 

But if those people would have bothered to face the reality that either Trump or Hillary was going to win, I trust they would have made the sensible decision. 

Ultimately, Democrats not showing up is to blame, but a protest vote in this election was bereft of forethought. As I said already in this thread, there wasn't a single third party candidate on my ballot except the two hopeless fools we know about already. My district has over 300,000 people in it, and not a single third party candidate was up for anything. Not one. 

Yet, these clowns are somehow going to get elected POTUS? It's absurd. They don't do the work required to win votes where they could actually make a difference, which is locally, so why on earth would they deserve a vote for President of the United States? This is here in Southern California. There are plenty of open minded people here relative to the midwest and south. Yet they can't get on a local ballot here??? That's laziness. 

Until third parties lay the foundation upon which to build a viable political entity, they have no business getting anyone's POTUS vote. Hell, I'd vote Green for local office and if it was even somewhat close for a state or federal position, which means they would have done the work to get on the ballot and run a hard working campaign, they'd have my vote in a heartbeat. Instead, the most significant things they've managed to do is help Dubbya and Trump get elected.

No one votes for a third party because they think they'll win. That's absurd.  People vote third party because they're sick of what the Dems and Repubs bring each election, and they would like to see that a third and even a fourth party have more power and recognition.  This whole two-party system is the reason we're always stuck with choosing between the lesser of two evils, and we need to get more parties involved with real power.  But as long as the "if you don't vote for this guy, you're helping the other guy" is accepted, we'll be stuck two shitty choices every time.

And you don't even know what way the third party voters would have voted.  For all you know, if those voters had been forced to pick between the main two, they may have all gone to Trump.

And as to those millions of Dems that didn't vote, maybe pick an energizing candidate and don't try to rig the primary next time.  The Democratic Party and Hillary basically committed political seppuku throughout the this whole campaign.  You know, you can scramble to blame whomever you want, but the buck stops with them.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
Hillary mishandled every element of the email issue to her own deficit. Her handling simply reinforced her opponent's narrative.

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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
(November 18, 2016 at 11:21 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:
Rhythm Wrote:That seems to be the narrative.  Wouldn't wanna hurt a racists feelings, or the feelings of someone who happens to love a racist or two.  That's the real sin, not the racism...that's okay now, as our election should make plainly clear to all of us.  That's the new normal.  We need to move past objecting and start pandering, lol.

Now stand at attention, and sig fucking heil !

The racists who voted for Obama in 2012? Because the people who voted for Obama in 2012 and didn't vote for Clinton in 2016 are the ones Democrats should be trying to get back. And not only will calling them racists not do that, it's patently untrue. Call the deplorables racists all you want, they're not who the people you're disagreeing with are talking about, that's just the strawman you're erecting so you can feel good about being intolerant of the intolerant, that's harder to do if you acknowledge that you're actually being intolerant of what used to be the Democrat base.

There's two categories of people that voted for Obama but not Clinton, those who didn't like her message and those illegally prevented from voting. Not one single white racist didn't vote McCain or whats his face.
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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
(November 18, 2016 at 2:58 pm)abaris Wrote:
(November 18, 2016 at 2:49 pm)Faith No More Wrote: If you look at the Trump supporters here, you'll see it wasn't apathy towards his racist ideals.  It was do anything to justify that this isn't racism, so they can convince themselves that they aren't aiding and abetting.

Make a distinction, will you?

I tend to believe CL when she says her parents didn't vote for Dump because of his racist message. Others are just the usual suspects but they're hardly representative and they're not all American.

Yeah, casual racsists tend to be blind to their own racism and that of others. They likely didn't vote him on racist grounds because the avoidance of cognitive dissonance didn't allow them to recognise the racism.
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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
(November 18, 2016 at 3:32 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I think she might have made it too personal to allow any hint of impropriety, Abaris...it's her Daddy, after all.  That's been the schtick this entire time, lol.  Daddy's a good man, not a racist, and not aiding and abetting racism.  How dare anyone say or imply such things about her daddy.  They should be ashamed.

CL's willing to believe the lies that Breitbart, Fox, Come et al tod about Clinton, yet not willing to accept the truth Trump told about himself.
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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
(November 18, 2016 at 2:58 pm)abaris Wrote:
(November 18, 2016 at 2:49 pm)Faith No More Wrote: If you look at the Trump supporters here, you'll see it wasn't apathy towards his racist ideals.  It was do anything to justify that this isn't racism, so they can convince themselves that they aren't aiding and abetting.

Make a distinction, will you?

I tend to believe CL when she says her parents didn't vote for Dump because of his racist message. Others are just the usual suspects but they're hardly representative and they're not all American.

And I repeat, voting for that creature because he seemed to endorse some pet value of theirs too, doesn't make it any better. It's aiding and abetting what he said and my contempt for all of them stays unchanged. But for different reasons because I don't like simplifications. They always cloud judgment. In this case on a pretty important issue.

[Emphasis mine]

Who exactly are you referring to here? The Trump supporters on this site that I have seen are Americans.

A Theist and Drich being the main ones.
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RE: Trump won the white working-man vote..
(November 18, 2016 at 5:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(November 18, 2016 at 3:26 pm)abaris Wrote: Can you at least appreciate that it's less bad to vote for an undesirable candidate who never attacked minorities as being something inferior, something to be afraid of, endorsed by the KKK, than it is for voting for a candidate more or less running his entire campaign on inciting the most primitive instincts humanity has to offer?

I don't see what the point is of sitting here and trying to decide which one is less horrible. As far as I'm concerned, they both suck and neither one represents my values. I'm sure one is worse than the other in some aspects and the other is worse in other aspects. Which one is overall less bad? I don't know. Racism is wrong, but so is killing unborn babies imho.

Oh, stop pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining. The only party advocating killing people is the republican party. Terminating a foetus is in no way comparable to killing a baby. You have no right, no right at all, to demand that others suscribe to the strictures laid out in the fantasy novel you believe in (and quite ironically, the bible is so ok with abortion, in some cases it actually demands abortions be performed).

You are currently equating women's rights with neo-fascism.
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