(November 18, 2016 at 4:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I;m not applying the same standards?  Really?  

You're not. You keep presenting it as a false dilemma. Either you support Trump and "accept" racism (ergo making every Trump supporter a racist), or you don't.

There more options than this, you can support Trump and not be accepting of racism.

I appreciate that might be laughable to you but it is an option nonetheless.

Again, your view is that people are 'trading' something for a racist ideology. My view is that's total horseshit.

(November 18, 2016 at 3:26 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 18, 2016 at 3:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I agree that you shouldn't vote for someone who doesn't represent your values just because you think they're "less bad" than the other. 

Can you at least appreciate that it's less bad to vote for an undesirable candidate who never attacked minorities as being something inferior, something to be afraid of, endorsed by the KKK, than it is for voting for a candidate more or less running his entire campaign on inciting the most primitive instincts humanity has to offer?

I don't see what the point is of sitting here and trying to decide which one is less horrible. As far as I'm concerned, they both suck and neither one represents my values. I'm sure one is worse than the other in some aspects and the other is worse in other aspects. Which one is overall less bad? I don't know. Racism is wrong, but so is killing unborn babies imho.

(November 18, 2016 at 4:15 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(November 18, 2016 at 9:11 am)Rhythm Wrote: Accidental racists?  LOL  I'm already familiar with the phenomena.  Somebody says or does something blatanly racists and then says "what was racist about that?"  Well ofc they're oblivious, they're fucking racists.  

I'm not tarnishing anyone Nap, they're the ones who cast that vote.   As I keep saying, if the bad thing™ is pointing out racism, rather than being racist...I don't care.  I'm going to do it anyway, no matter how much you or any given racist whines about it.

No, not 'accidental racists'. Not racists full stop.

Your equation here is that anyone voting for Trump is validating racism by casting their vote for him. The reality is not anywhere near this black and white, pardon the pun.

I mean I could similarly say anyone who voted for Hillary is OK with corruption, assassination, money laundering etc and thus validates all of these things. But you and me both know that would be stupid. You're not applying the same standards here. There's a myriad of reasons why someone might vote the way they did and to just ignore them all and brand everyone racists just seems the epitome of irresponsibility. It does nothing more than further the divide.

By denigrating anyone who voted for Trump as a racist, you're 1. devaluing the use of the term racist to the point where nobody even pays attention to it anymore and 2. intentionally misrepresenting and ignoring the reasons why people would/could have voted. Do you honestly believe it is more constructive to call all Trump supporters racist than to actually acknowledge that the reasons many voted for him had precisely fuck all to do with race?

And yeah, you are tarnishing these people. It really makes you a hypocrite to come out with stereotypical bigotry of this nature. Ain't that irony.

I just need to repost this awesome post. Said it better than I ever could.

(November 18, 2016 at 5:02 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(November 18, 2016 at 4:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I;m not applying the same standards?  Really?  

You're not.

Strange, I just told you that I did apply the same standards....but I guess we're moving on to other things?

Quote:You keep presenting it as a false dilemma. Either you support Trump and "accept" racism (ergo making every Trump supporter a racist), or you don't.

There more options than this, you can support Trump and not be accepting of racism.  

Well, I'm sure that a person can feel that way....but casting their vote is what gave him the ability to take his racist ideology to the white house.  He couldn't just walk in and declare himself potus, after all, lol.

There's really no way to wiggle out of that.  A person can say "I don't agree with the racist part" - tough titties, they still sent it to the whitehouse.  "I wanted the other stuff" tough titties, they still sent it to the whitehouse. "The other guy sucked" tough titties, they still sent it to the whitehouse.

If sending something to the whitehouse isn't support, just what is? If supporting a candidate for presidency isn't accepting his platform...what is?

Quote:I appreciate that might be laughable to you but it is an option nonetheless.

Again, your view is that people are 'trading' something for a racist ideology. My view is that's total horseshit.

Okay, so we have opposing views, and?  Their votes sent the racist and his racist ideology to the white house.  You think that it's unfair for me to lay the racism at their feets.  Well, I'm not...they picked it up....and carried it to the whitehouse. As I keep saying, I didn;t put it on their backs. I didn't make them vote for him. I didn't hold their hands. You don't think that this expresses any racism on their part, I do.

(November 18, 2016 at 5:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Which one is overall less bad? I don't know. Racism is wrong, but so is killing unborn babies imho.

Oh, please, don't go down that lane.

Hillary didn't advocate killing unborn babies. She just didn't advocate restricting already existing laws.

The other one was very vocal about excluding certain minorities. He was advocating putting a ban on all of them and he did paint them as being inferior or a public danger. So much so that he's the first cadidate in living history to get an endorsment from the KKK.

Both the same kind of bad? Hopefully not if you take a moment to reflect.

(November 18, 2016 at 4:05 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: The not Trump side. Are you sure you don't have a side?

I'm on the side of calling a spade a spade. Neither Dems or Repubs seem to like that right now.

Just how many of these Trump voters do you think are reachable? How many people that fell for his bullshit do you think you can you reason with? Just look at this board. People pointed out all of the false narratives Trump was spinning, and his supporters didn't care. They just ignored it or tried to twist it.

(November 18, 2016 at 4:05 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Flipping a sufficient number of votes will do shit.

Yes, that is what I said. That's also why Dems should be more concerned about finding a viable candidate than holding the hands of people that voted for an obvious bigot.

(November 18, 2016 at 5:02 pm)Napoléon Wrote: There more options than this, you can support Trump and not be accepting of racism.  

I appreciate that might be laughable to you but it is an option nonetheless.

Again, your view is that people are 'trading' something for a racist ideology. My view is that's total horseshit.

It doesn't matter if they're accepting of racism or not. The fact still remains that they put a man that ran a racist campaign in the White House. Regardless of how they feel about racism, they just validated it with a vote. It's a trivial difference.

Anyone that votes for a man that called for a national registry of Muslims needs to understand that they are now an accomplice to hatred and bigotry whether it hurts their feelings or not.

You're killin me, smalls. Muslim isn't a race, it's a religion. Not saying it's any less ridiculous to ban them/register them though.

  There it is. The Usual Objection™.

Really killin that benefit of the doubt thing. How many non bigots read from the bigots script, I wonder? Why do they do that...I wonder?

(November 18, 2016 at 5:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You're killin me, smalls. Muslim isn't a race, it's a religion. Not saying it's any less ridiculous to ban them/register them though.

Please don't go down there either. What would you think of the statement "total and complete shutdown of the entry of Jews to the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on."

Do you feel comfortable in using the old weasel argument of X or Y not being a race? By now you should know how much I despise X or Y are not a race, if you read any of my posts on the matter. Jews aren't a race either, if you want to know. They're semites. Same as Palestinians, who happen to be muslims - or christians.