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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 3:41 pm
(November 24, 2016 at 3:20 pm)The Joker Wrote: It depends on what you mean by "troll", the word troll is highly subjective in this forum.
No, it's very specifically defined:
Quote:We consider trolling to be repeatedly doing any of the following:
- Making provocative posts.
- Making posts that are unrelated / irrelevant to the thread or conversation subject.
- Disrupting normal discussion.
The interpretation and application of that definition is up to us, but that's not relevant here.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 4:32 pm
Beep... beeep.... beer?
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 5:07 pm
(November 24, 2016 at 3:06 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I see the Troll has still more to say. (Since I have him on ignore, I don't know and don't care what he is saying this time.) But based on peoples remarks to him I totally agree that the Joker's contributions to this thread have devolved into the same mindless blather he brings to every thread. Since this one is of interest to so many of us perhaps the troll could restrict himself to trolling threads he starts himself to avoid honest attempts at discussion.
I just wonder of which banned user will he turn out to be a sock of?
Urbs Antiqua Fuit Studiisque Asperrima Belli
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 5:14 pm
(November 24, 2016 at 4:32 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Beep... beeep.... beer?
https://youtu.be/75oun5gvDAU?t=624
or better yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE9b3IdTCiY
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 5:21 pm
(November 24, 2016 at 2:50 pm)LastPoet Wrote: I am bored and troubled by Joker hijacking a good thread with a seemingly respectable theist, the OP, Balaco. He seems very reasonable and its a shame this troll is messing things up. Time to suit in and prosecute. Meh.
I agree. This guy is here asking for our help. Joker already has several stupid spammy troll threads, he doesn't need to spread his ignorance (feigned or otherwise), all over this too.
How about you show some respect Joker and take it elsewhere.
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 7:09 pm
"For the invisible things are clearly seen" is a pretty good description of many religious "proofs."
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 7:27 pm
(November 24, 2016 at 5:07 pm)Tazzycorn Wrote: (November 24, 2016 at 3:06 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I see the Troll has still more to say. (Since I have him on ignore, I don't know and don't care what he is saying this time.) But based on peoples remarks to him I totally agree that the Joker's contributions to this thread have devolved into the same mindless blather he brings to every thread. Since this one is of interest to so many of us perhaps the troll could restrict himself to trolling threads he starts himself to avoid honest attempts at discussion.
I just wonder of which banned user will he turn out to be a sock of?
I only wish that had to be the answer. I'm afraid tom foolery and pranking are much more common than that. This joker is probably super inhibited in person. But given the anonymity of the internet .. oh my, what a brave t wit lad.
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 8:34 pm
@ the OP
From my point of view you should become an atheist because atheism is more aligned with reality.
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 8:55 pm
(This post was last modified: November 24, 2016 at 9:11 pm by Mudhammam.)
(November 22, 2016 at 6:44 pm)Balaco Wrote: Atheists, why do you reject the idea of God, and why should I? I know that your answers will include "there's no evidence" and all that, but please try to explain. 1. The general concept of "God" is usually poorly defined. More specific conceptions of God, such as the Trinitiarian "deity" of Roman Catholicism, tend to be self-contradictory and incompatible with the nature of reality (for example, the problem of evil).
2. No specific statements about God or alleged interactions with terrestrial beings are more likely to be true than any other (contrary) statements. Hence, if 99.9% of all other (e.g. non-Catholic) gods must be considered false given the evidence or arguments put forward for their existence, and the .1% of faith claims (e.g. those within Catholic orthodoxy) that are believed to be true have nothing exponentially greater in terms of the evidence or arguments put forward for them, epistemologically we are only in a position of saying that either (A) all 100% are true or (B) all 100% are false. Since (A) entails self-contradiction, the most probable conclusion is (B).
3. The claims about God are on their face no different than the sorts of claims that cannot in principle be proven true or false, and moreover, boast of no pragmatic value that is specific to their being true (in this life, at least); or, if they can in principle be proven true or false, they lack sufficient data to declare with certainty one way or another (as is the case with big foot, alien abductions, ghosts, etc.); given the contradictory nature of competing claims, probability demands that each rules out every other (see #2).
4. Lack of evidence in support of theism coupled with a growing body of evidence showing human beings to be immensely ignorant of the causes underlying their immediate experiences, and the fact that it typically involves claims about the world that can be traced to primitive notions of which even most believers find too incredible to give their assent (e.g., Christianity can be traced to Hellenistic Judaism and Greek philosophy, which are themselves mostly derived from ideas that originate with more ancient religions, e.g. Egyptian, Sumerian, etc.). All of this, to say nothing of the specific faith claims themselves, screams out contrivance.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
November 24, 2016 at 8:55 pm
(November 23, 2016 at 9:16 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: (November 23, 2016 at 7:14 pm)Balaco Wrote: I was taught that God doesn't give us undeniable proof of his existence as a test of faith...those with righteous minds would find him. Joker and any other Catholics, what are your thoughts on this?
It is an obvious apologetic argument meant for the sake of saving religious face.
"Oh, god will not show himself, you must have faith."
The same can be stated for anyone who believes in anything without the proper evidence to support its existence.
If god is capable of proving his existence, yet refuses, then that by extension of logic indicates god is not worthy of worship.
Yeah, I'm not too sure what to think on it. If God is real, then it's an actual spiritual test, but it also seems like it could just be an argument used to preserve the faith.
Anyway, thanks again guys for all the posts. It's definitely interesting to see things from the atheist viewpoint for pretty much the first time...not really sure what's going on with Joker (seems like he's notorious but I guess I'll try to examine what he's saying) but I want to thank you all for keeping the discussion going.
I think there's at least three main things I'll need to look into as I continue to figure this all out – the Christian/Catholic and atheist stances on creation, various miracles, and the afterlife. Probably going to do some research around the Internet about this...if you guys have anything to contribute, that'd be cool.
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