Why should my hard earned money go to those less fortunate?

[SteelCurtain]

[Cecelia]

I'll never understand why people are okay with wasting money on drug screening for those one welfare. I mean the states that have tried it have found that it isn't going to save money. Cut the millions to spend on drug testing, and you'd save more money than if you eliminate the drug users on welfare.

Of course we all know with Conservatives it's not really about saving money. It's about shaming people on welfare by making them take drug tests.

[Tiberius]

If anything, we should be paying for people addicted to drugs to go to rehab so they can get their lives back on track.

People seem to forget that drug addiction is a real problem. Its not something many people can just give up.

The problem isn't that people are on welfare and spending their money on drugs, it's that they are addicted to drugs in the first place. If you take away their welfare you aren't going to stop them doing drugs, which means they'll be in an even worse financial situation. Get them off the drugs by actually helping them rather than punishing them.

[Iroscato]

Why bust my ass at work 60+ hours a week when I could work part time and get Medicaid and foodstamps?

You talk the talk, big man. I fucking dare you to walk the walk, even for a year. Why not live like those that you so easily pass down judgement upon? You said it yourself - they have it great!

What are you waiting for?! Quit your job and sign on already!!

[Iroscato]

Oh, and heaven forbid poor people buy things that might bring them some enjoyment and pleasure. So what...because they currently lack employment, they shouldn't be allowed to eat steak as and when their meagre budgets can stretch to it?

So what's the solution? Install anti-steak guards at every shop in the country to viciously beat the unemployed into submission every time they attempt to purchase their dead cow? Give the unemployed juuuuuust enough to allow them to not starve to death, forever hovering on the knife-edge of starvation, unable to experience even the merest momentary sliver of joy? We could just cut all government support permanently... there's no way that would cause 98% of the unemployed to turn to crime as their survival instinct overrides the fear of retribution, no sir.

Oooh! We could force them into work programs for their benefits, thereby violating one of the most fundamental tenets of the worker-employee agreement (fair work=fair wages) and treat them as the üntermensch that they are - hey, they're just the unemployed! They're not...y'know...human or anything.

[SteelCurtain]

But you don't understand, Iro. He saw some of them buying seafood.

[Iroscato]

Well shit. Forget, like, EVERYTHING I just said.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If you take away their welfare you aren't going to stop them doing drugs, which means they'll be in an even worse financial situation.

And gosh, I wonder what they'll be doing at that point to score the next fix?

This is exactly how criminalizing drugs feeds the broader crime rate.

Get them off the drugs by actually helping them rather than punishing them.

I'd be willing to bet that the cure for drugs is a Hell of a lot cheaper than the War on Drugs ™. To be fair, many addicts simply won't come out the other side of the program clean and sober; addiction is a harsh taskmaster. But it seems to me to be 1) more financially responsible (on the social level) to focus on intervention rather than punitive justice, considering that it costs about $31,000 on average to incarcerate a convict for a year, and 2) will produce more for society, given that recovering addicts without a prison record have more chances to pay back, in real terms, the debt they've incurred (financial or moral, take your pick) to society for its help in rescuing their live. On a pragmatic as well as moral level, supporting their recovery is IMO the right thing to do.

[Pat Mustard]

Read the Spirit Level. It explains why countries with stronger welfare systems and more equal wealth distributions are better for all living there.

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Ideally, help for the needy would come strictly from charity rather than the government. Unfortunately, it isnt enough bc many ppl dont give. But if you want to change this personally for yourself, you can factor in whatever you give to charity when doing your taxes, and you won't have to pay as much to the government.

Government distribution is far better than charitable distribution. All too often charities (even secular ones) discriminate in favour of "people like us". Plus with government distribution you've got economies of scale and better protection against fraud (for example, in Ireland there's barely a charity that hasn't had problems with misuse of funds and nepotistic business dealings or hirings in the last five years).

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Yes this thread has turned into a white male supremacist debate.

So you don't actually give a shit about anybody else, but you care enough about your image in front of others to find a rationalisation to jusitfy your greed and lack of empathy. Got it.

[paulpablo]

One thing I never understood about the benefits system at least where I live and I'm assuming it's the same over the UK.

At first people on benefits got stuff purely for free because they couldn't find a job.  But surely there's always something to do.  If it's street sweeping cleaning, making the area look better in general.

Then it went in the other direction and people on benefits had to work for free as part of some scheme. It wasn't exactly free but I'm pretty sure it was way below minum wage. So again it goes back to, the government has the money that they're going to be paid anyway, there are jobs to be done.  Just pay them the wage and get them working.  Rather than have them work for near enough free which is close to slavery, or give them stuff for free which is just forcing other people to pay for their things.

It's like someone has skipped a really nice middle ground between giving things away free to people or put them into slavery.

I'm probably over looking some complication I'm not aware of here but that's been my thoughts on it when I worked with people at my old work place who had to be there for hours to earn their benefits which wasn't as much as I'm being paid.
Also my thoughts when I've known people who didn't mind being on benefits and wanted to claim more by pretending to be mentally depressed or whatever their scheme was.