Do you believe in free will?

[NoMoreFaith]

Can't help but notice most of the theists gave this one a wide birth. Determinism really sticks a nail in the gift of free will. To freely choose to follow Jesus Christ hits a brick wall if free will is illusionary. The concept of human evil becomes irrelevant, and quite frankly, the basis of the religion with it.

As long as we can agree that free will means that you could have acted differently, then the burden of proof lies squarely with those who claim otherwise, since we need little convincing the rest of the universe broadly determined.

While we can define free will in different ways, its really "free will" apologetics saving face to preserve their sense of autonomy.

Part of this is the implications for morality, as equally illusionary which is a fearful idea. However, it does not remove the requirement to remove harmful aspects of our society and equally provide deterrent or stimuli for others. Our enjoyment of life, for most of us, relies on the maintenance of social order.

Seeing as few in this thread are actually proposing utter free will, I'd be interested in hearing peoples views on the implications for morality and justice.
I would propose that the concept of retribution would by necessity need to removed as a factor in considering punishment or rehabilitation, but paired with the fact that like free will, the requirement for retribution is deeply ingrained in us, that acceptance of determinism, while less satisfying, results in a fairer more empathetic approach to society, identifying causes of anti-social behaviour, and apply rectification, rather than a focus on the individual themselves.

[Perhaps]

When it comes down to it, what's the difference between metaphysical freedom and epistemic freedom? Simply our knowledge.

I think I have free will simply because I don't know the future. I probably don't have metaphysical freedom, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't know, and therefore feel that I have free will. It's a useful illusion if it does in fact turn out to be an illusion, but then again, so is reality and our perceptions. Perhaps there's more important aspects to the question than just the answer.

As for moral responsibility, it's very difficult to accept that we are responsible whatsoever if we can assume that we don't possess metaphysical freedom. Once again, we assume that we have moral responsibility, just as we assume we have free will.

[Angrboda]

When it comes down to it, what's the difference between metaphysical freedom and epistemic freedom? Simply our knowledge.

I think I have free will simply because I don't know the future. I probably don't have metaphysical freedom, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't know, and therefore feel that I have free will. It's a useful illusion if it does in fact turn out to be an illusion, but then again, so is reality and our perceptions. Perhaps there's more important aspects to the question than just the answer.

"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."

— Dwight D. Eisenhower

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

I agree with you. The idea of a transcendent mind capable of making decisions beyond what genetics and society have caused is impossible. However, since the brain is the person, and the brain causes the action, it's still 'free' for the brain. The real debate should be about the definition of free will, I think. It sounds like most of the people here are getting hung up on the definition rather than the consenus.

How so? Name me one 'action' that any single neuron in the brain can make that isn't a result of an interaction with various other stimuli.

Touche. However, if you read my original post you'll see that I did specify that external stimuli mixed with genetics decide what action the brain takes. I'm not interested in clinging to the idea of free will, but I am interested in pointing out that I merely consider free will to be "the ability for my brain to make decisions that align with what external forces make most plausible". In short, I could care less whether we actually have 'free will' as most people define it, since it's certain that even if we do not, it would make no difference. We'll still end up saying and thinking the same things either way, whether I call it free will or not.

[Christian]

Let me answer the original question. I believe in freewill. It is a God given privilege to humans. I choose to believe in Jesus because of my freewill. I i don't I'll be condemed to hell for eternity. I am free to worship Jesus, thus my freewill.

[Whateverist]

Let me answer the original question. I believe in freewill. It is a God given privilege to humans. I choose to believe in Jesus because of my freewill. I i don't I'll be condemed to hell for eternity. I am free to worship Jesus, thus my freewill.

Is yours another joke-account? An atheist pretending to be a theist in order to present them as laughable? To me it isn't very funny or attractive. I see no reason to disrespect theists and it makes me uncomfortable if that is your intention.

[Christian]

Is yours another joke-account? An atheist pretending to be a theist in order to present them as laughable? To me it isn't very funny or attractive. I see no reason to disrespect theists and it makes me uncomfortable if that is your intention.

Sovereignty is God's absolute and exclusive right to exercise authority in the universe (I Chron 29:11-12; I Sam 2:6-8; Psalm 50:10-11). Thus God has absolute authority over my freewill, and thus my reason to believe in God despite my freewill. Freewill is meant to be free to do whatever you want, but not forgetting God and his authority over all mankind. Something similar to what you guys believe... something came from nothing... when it was nothing. So free should also not mean free in every context.

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

Oh yeah, he's gotta be a troll.
"God has absolute authority over my free will"
He's a troll.

Look at his sig, if his stupidity doesn't make it clear enough. That's just asking to be proven wrong.

[Angrboda]

My God has blessed me with a magical pony who only appears when I masturbate. Since I've gone blind from all the masturbating I no longer see the pony but I keep masturbating.


You see, I have faith.

[NoMoreFaith]

Sovereignty is God's absolute and exclusive right to exercise authority in the universe (I Chron 29:11-12; I Sam 2:6-8; Psalm 50:10-11). Thus God has absolute authority over my freewill, and thus my reason to believe in God despite my freewill. Freewill is meant to be free to do whatever you want, but not forgetting God and his authority over all mankind.

You better throw out God's omniscience then. I assume you are aware of the argument from free will and omniscience.

In short;
1. If God is omniscient, he knows all things
2. We have free will, defined by being able to make an uncoerced choice between alternatives.
3. For free will to exist, there must be uncertainty about what choice you will make.
4. Uncertainty implies doubt about the outcome.
5. An omniscient God cannot doubt about the outcome.
5. Therefore an omniscient God does not exist.

Now the natural criticism is that knowing you will do something, is not the same as coercion, however, it then brings into question why he is asking you to "choose" to follow Jesus if he knows you will not. From birth God is aware you are doomed to hell, regardless of the choices you make, for he is aware of all things, especially your mind. Jesus made it very clear thought crime is punishable as well.

So we are left begging that God is omniscient only up to the point a decision is made. Which means the classic view that he sees all time at once is wrong, not only that but begs the question, that he is not all powerful either as a paradox.

Something similar to what you guys believe... something came from nothing... when it was nothing. So free should also not mean free in every context.

Only theists claim that, creatio ex nihilo. Also, non-belief in God does not necessitate a belief in how things were created. The standard answer is simply "I don't know", which theists love because it means they can say "Ah Ha, God Did It", which commits a major logical fallacy known as the God of the Gaps.