Heated debate on evolution with brother

[chimp3]

I like to ask pointed questions. 

Why do all mammals have fur, placentas, mammary glands?

Why do all birds have feathers?

Why do we share more genes with chimps than we do with racoons and even less with chickens?

It is easy to see how forcing someone to explain these answers opens up more questions. Questions which reveal the answers to the savvy.

[Aoi Magi]

I like to ask pointed questions. 

Why do all mammals have fur, placentas, mammary glands?

Why do all birds have feathers?

Why do we share more genes with chimps than we do with racoons and even less with chickens?

It is easy to see how forcing someone to explain these answers opens up more questions. Questions which reveal the answers to the savvy.

'Cause they were designed that way.... and magic

[Alex K]

Jerry Coyne
Why Evolution is True

He writes very well and is a world expert on evolutionary genetics, arguably a researcher of greater scientific import than Dawkins. The book has the virtue of being relatively short compared to some of Dawkins' tomes like TGSOE and Ancestor's Tale, and it is more up to date than Dawkins' older works.

[robvalue]

A point I've noted before:

The theory of evolution has shown considerable resiliency. It's by far the most popular theory for theists to try and dismantle. So much so that they will often seemingly accept the rest of science without question, and attempt to use it to bring down this one "problem" theory.

Yet it still stands, after all these beatings. That's one tough theory. Of course, no theory is ever likely to be perfect and improvements are always good. But the flapping of gums about how fundamentally flawed the whole thing is does not match the reality. It's easy to pretend you've dismantled it when you won't let actual qualified scientists review your objections.

[Mister Agenda]

Among educated folks, again and again, engineers seem particularly susceptible to this. I wonder why that is...

It would seem that a number of people have noticed this.  I would also add the it appears that quite a few who practice medicine also fall into the same category.  Which has lead me to ask before, if those in applied sciences are more likely to deny evolution?

You may have something there. If any profession would bias someone towards design, engineering would be a good candidate for that. And medicine as a practice doesn't seem to result in high rates of acceptance of the ToE, nor does microbiology as a part of medical practice.

[Alex K]

Among educated folks, again and again, engineers seem particularly susceptible to this. I wonder why that is...

It would seem that a number of people have noticed this.  I would also add the it appears that quite a few who practice medicine also fall into the same category.  Which has lead me to ask before, if those in applied sciences are more likely to deny evolution?

Yes you're right, as we've seen in the US presidential race, one can be a great surgeon and still be an evolution denying creationist. Maybe it's that these groups are very highly educated in a science related field (but often don't actually do science in the strictest sense). The engineer is entirely focused on analyzing design and will interpret things she sees in this frame of reference. A surgeon is confronted with the great complexity of life and has to work and struggle with it, and sees herself as an expert on how life works - not having gotten any in depth training on how such complexity can arise naturally, she might feel compelled to jump to creationist conclusions.

[SteelCurtain]

So, my older brother and I were were on a lengthy road trip tonight and we were having deep conversation along the way. He is significantly older than me and often talks to me in a sort of domineering and strident, though not necessarily rude fashion.

Now, my brother is smart in many ways. In fact, in many ways he's a genius. He's a very successful engineer who has led an impressive career and is very accomplished in life. But he is the type who is very attached to his own way of thinking and his own opinions.

Over the course of about four hours in the car we talked about all sorts of things such as politics, computer programming, etc. Everything went fine until I mentioned evolution. Then he kind of lost it. He kept saying that there's no evidence for evolution. That it was all bogus etc. I told him that, yes, in fact evolution is one of the clearest and most well understood things in science. He kept saying that he's never seen one piece of evidence that confirms evolution and that all of the fossils are fabricated. He kept asking why there are no animals currently changing forms, etc. He displayed utter ignorance of the entire concept. But there's just no getting through to him. He claimed that the scientists were trying to dismantle the Christian belief.

At that point I had to just withdraw. There was simply no getting through to him. He kept reiterating that he was open to the evidence, but that there is no evidence. The hostility he displayed was tremendous.

Any tips on good information sources to send him?

Send him to the Smithsonian, so he can see the fossils himself. Just came from there yesterday. They literally have all the fossils you could possibly need to 'prove' evolution. It would be a pretty impressive feat to see all of them and still be like, "naw it's all made up..."

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[pocaracas]

pshaw!
That is clearly a hyppo's body, a a toucan's bill, a bull's horns and some cosmetics to smooth he transition from each!

[SteelCurtain]

pshaw!
That is clearly a hyppo's body, a a toucan's bill, a bull's horns and some cosmetics to smooth he transition from each!

Well, what then do you say about basilosaurus?

Notice the tiny, vestigial hind limbs...

[pocaracas]

pshaw!
That is clearly a hyppo's body, a a toucan's bill, a bull's horns and some cosmetics to smooth he transition from each!

Well, what then do you say about basilosaurus?

Notice the tiny, vestigial hind limbs...

Aligator tail, Whale body, crocodile head with some shark teeth and some dolphin teeth, too.
The limbs seem to come from an otter.

Check-mate, atheists!