nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?

[LastPoet]

Oh, I can see it right now:
The fine tuning argument...
The 2nd Law of thermodynamics...
The usual arguments from ignorance...
A bit of Special Pleading..
And a nice personal experience to spice things up!

Feels like deja-vu

[Zen Badger]

Hey atheists!!...so, big news...ive been converted, totally see where you's are coming from....NAT!! lol, na, im just kidding im still a Christian, although after reading most of your posts i was a bit down. Seems you guys have all the "answers" or at least you's think you's do. A lot of you's seem to be quite arrogant, i posted this thread just to hear your opinions on a few things, but a lot of the posts come across as rude. I didnt do this thread to be questioned in what i believe in, you may think im irrational but its my opinion, and i could say the same of you.
Again, being so wise, you all seem to know your bibles "oh so well" (and i wouldn't even call myself an average Christian Zen, as i said before, im a pretty poor 1, but in relation to what you said, try reading Isaiah Ch 53, v 1-12)
This will be my last post for a while, im going to try and study my bible more, so that ill be able to answer your arguments more effectively. At the moment my knowledge of the bible, im ashamed to admit for a Christian is quite poor. Although i do no Psalm Ch 53 v 1.
Ill finish with Luke Ch 23 v 34 Then said Jesus, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."
All the best you guys, and as Arnie said "Ill be back"

Don't rush back on our account.

[KichigaiNeko]

Hey atheists!!...so, big news...ive been converted, totally see where you's are coming from....NAT!! lol, na, im just kidding im still a Christian, although after reading most of your posts i was a bit down. Seems you guys have all the "answers" or at least you's think you's do. A lot of you's seem to be quite arrogant, i posted this thread just to hear your opinions on a few things, but a lot of the posts come across as rude. I didnt do this thread to be questioned in what i believe in, you may think im irrational but its my opinion, and i could say the same of you.
Again, being so wise, you all seem to know your bibles "oh so well" (and i wouldn't even call myself an average Christian Zen, as i said before, im a pretty poor 1, but in relation to what you said, try reading Isaiah Ch 53, v 1-12)
This will be my last post for a while, im going to try and study my bible more, so that ill be able to answer your arguments more effectively. At the moment my knowledge of the bible, im ashamed to admit for a Christian is quite poor. Although i do no Psalm Ch 53 v 1.
Ill finish with Luke Ch 23 v 34 Then said Jesus, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."
All the best you guys, and as Arnie said "Ill be back"

Hey Xtians!!

Your own words can be thrown right back at you.....a rather pontificating self sanctimonious post norbrook.

Only proves the arrogance and ignorance of xtians more than anything else imho.

Hopefully you will find your front too!!

[Entropist]

Seems you guys have all the "answers" or at least you's think you's do. A lot of you's seem to be quite arrogant...

"When we reach the limits of monologue, the confines of solitude, we invent--for lack of a better interlocutor--God, supreme pretext of dialogue. So long as you name Him, your madness is well disguised, and... all is permitted. The true believer is scarcely to be distinguished from a madman, but his madness is legal, acknowledged; he would end up in an asylum if his aberrations were pure of all faith. But God covers them, legitimizes them. The pride of a conqueror pales beside the ostentation of a believer who addreses himself to a Creator. How can one dare so much? And how could modesty be a virtue of temples, when a decrepit old woman whom imagines Infinity within reach raises herself by prayer to a level of audacity to which no tyrant has ever laid claim?" (E.M. Cioran, from A Short History of Decay)

[Watson]

^Come up with your own words, then maybe you'll be listened to.

[Skipper]

^Come up with your own words, then maybe you'll be listened to.

Christians could try and do the same.

[Watson]

Everyone could try a little harder and do a little better than they are, I suppose.

[Minimalist]

but id also like to challenge you's to read one of the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John), first books in the new testament, read all of the book, read it in context and with an open mind, thats all.

Been there. Done that. They are total bullshit. Now what have you got left?

[little_monkey]

I currently have nothing in my hand, and I will continue to have nothing in my hand until I pick up something, basic science.

Not quite right. There is something, and that something is everywhere. It's called quantum fluctuations.

[solja247]

Anyway, using your own logic of something coming from nothing, how logically do you come to the conclusion that an even more complex being than the universe i.e. God came out of nothing? And just saying "because god always existed" dosen't count, if your asking for a scientific response for your question, I'd expect the same rules to apply to your answer to my question.

The common if something came out of nothing who created God. You dont attempt to answer how something finite was created out of nothing, you just argue that God had to have a cause (which is a big assumption) and you still dont have any answer besides, 'If God did it, then the universe can do it.' Which is comparing apples and oranges...

Science dosen't claim to have all the answers, you and the followers of your religion do, so I'd suggest the burden of providing any sort of proof of anything in relation to the beginning of the universe lays with you.

The more I learn, the more I know I will never know a lot of things. Just because some unedumacted preachers say they have all the answers, doesnt mean that all [i] religous [i] people have the answers . The Bible doesnt even explain why there is evil in this universe!

---

I've read bits. Here's a personal favourite: 'If a slave owner takes a stick and beats his slave... and the slave dies on the spot, the owner is to be punished. But if the slave does not die for a day or two, the master is not to be punished. The loss of his property is punishment enough.' (Exodus 21:21)

Could you imagine if God gave the UN charter of rights?
God only goes as fast as the people can

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[b]will be subject to judgment.

No, you believe there was "someone" who we have no real evidence for. I believe the universe has always existed in some state, and since we can observe that the universe exists, and all our observations point to it existing in some sort of state, I have the evidence to back up my assertion. Your move. Evidence that your God exists / started the universe? (and by evidence, I don't necessarily mean "scientific evidence")

How so?
Everything that has a begining has had a cause
The universe had a begining
Thus, it had a cause
Since it had a cause something had to give it a cause for its existence

You can call that 'something' aliens, God or some sought of created being but the universe had to have a cause, since it as a begining...

For heavens sake don't read it literally! Read it in the context of it's time! Except the good bits of course! Read them literally! And the bits the prove gods existence! Read them literally as well!!!

No wonder why most atheists think the Bible is ridiculous, they dont understand theology or exegesis!

Yeah great lessons for life!

They were, if you lived thousands of years ago

(Quoted from evilbible.com)

Sounds as credible as Answersingenesis! How about using peer reviewed journals? or credible sites?

Is is possible the Christian god exists? Yes. Is it PROBABLE? No.

How do you get to your conclusion?

What exactly are you unconvinced by? If I don't know that, how can I explain it in a more convincing way for you?

Question, have they been able to create RNA in a lab yet?

---

That doesn't mean it couldn't have happened by itself.

True, or a green goblin created life. I will wait for empirical evidence before I say how this world absolutely came into existence.

Give science time, 50 years ago IVF would have seemed impossible, 100 years ago stopping and reversing the effects of many natural disease's would have seemed impossible. Seeing as your idea of god had an eternity to come up with what he did, I'd say humans have done comparatively well when taking into account the time scales.

I disagree. in the 1950s everyone thought we would be travelling in space and have flying cars in the year 2000. I love this argument, 'Just you wait Mr, we will have time machines and create life artifically! Just you wait.' Ok I will wait, in the meantime, life hasnt been replicated, therefore making your hypothesis weak, since there is no empirical evidence...

---

Seems you guys have all the "answers" or at least you's think you's do. A lot of you's seem to be quite arrogant...

I used to think the same, and then I evolved