nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?

[Watson]

It is highly improbable that any god exists...let alone the judeo-xtian monstrosity.

It is highly improbable that you exist, let alone the rest of humanity.

[Skipper]

It is highly improbable that any god exists...let alone the judeo-xtian monstrosity.

It is highly improbable that you exist, let alone the rest of humanity.

Given the size of the universe, how we understand what is needed for life and the length of time life has had to being and then evolve... it was actually fairly probable life would occur somewhere in the universe at some point.

Regardless, we can prove he and humanity does exist (as sure as we can be of anything), with observable evidence, so where the correlation?

[Xyster]

It still confuzes me on how people can't accept that the universe formed on its own becouse of its complexity even though we can actually observe it... But then they can believe some being (that by definition would have to be as or even more complex) that there is NO evedence for and cannot be observed...

[everythingafter]

but id also like to challenge you's to read one of the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John), first books in the new testament, read all of the book, read it in context and with an open mind, thats all.

Yes, like Adrian said ... many of us already have done so and used to be Christians. I've also read most of C.S. Lewis' nonfiction stuff and many other Christian apologetic books.

[HeyItsZeus]

1) The Big Bang was the expansion of space-time. Nothing went "bang". The universe already existed in a singularity, without time (so there was no "before") and at the moment of the Big Bang, space and time started expanding, and the universe with it. So there was never "nothing", there was always "something".

2) Basic bacteria *today* have complex DNA. This is not true of the bacteria in the past. Complexity increases the more organisms evolve. The first living organisms were self-replicating cells that were most likely composed of RNA (the precursor to DNA). As for how they got there, you'd have to read up on abiogenesis, but it involves the early Earth environment being in the right state for life, and a spark of energy (possibly lightning) that formed the first chemical reactions that led to self-replicating organic material.

3) *Some* atheists say there is no God. *Most* atheists say they don't believe there is a God. There is a big difference in denying outright the existence of something, and simply not having a belief in it. I am the latter; I describe myself as an agnostic atheist. Agnostic in that I make no claims to "know" God doesn't exist, or that I can prove it doesn't. Atheist in that I do not believe that God exists.

I'm being honest, I think you always have the right answers to all of these Theist posts. Are you a professor, a scientist or just All-Knowing?

[ABierman1986]

2) Basic bacteria *today* have complex DNA. This is not true of the bacteria in the past. Complexity increases the more organisms evolve. The first living organisms were self-replicating cells that were most likely composed of RNA (the precursor to DNA). As for how they got there, you'd have to read up on abiogenesis, but it involves the early Earth environment being in the right state for life, and a spark of energy (possibly lightning) that formed the first chemical reactions that led to self-replicating organic material.

To my understanding they have never created RNA in a lab before, or a functioning cell. I guess its hard trying to play God?

Well, unless you're referring to the completely synthesized DNA chain that is currently replicating and living happily as a completely artificial living organism. It's a new development, but yea, they made life. Creating it in natural, spontaneous conditions has thus far been out of reach. But we can create synthetic life, they can print organs out of inkjet printers, they can communicate synaptic tissue and silicon chips, we are doing a hell of a lot of God playing and the results are incredible!!!!

Ok, so Big Bang, does everyone remember their Einstein? He proved space and time are one; spacetime. What affects one affects the other. What happens in a quantum singularity is hardly understood, but we do know that time is very definitely not behaving in a fashion we recognize. It is not a traintracks, there is no "before" the big bang, a question such as thus is not framed appropriately. Quantum vacuum energy has been seen, created, and observed to literally create matter from nothing. It may sound whacky, but its true and its been confirmed. A universe such as ours compressed into a singularity has warped time as well, time is not a framework within which the universe works, it is a part of that framework. If you understand that, then you understand the flaws in asking questions about what happened before the big bang, and how something came from nothing.

I for one will not simply say I understand the beginning of the universe because God did it. I will not stop my questioning or allow a religion or faith as irrational as it is similar to the thousands of mutually exclusive faiths to insert a permanent mental black hole in my reason.

[Zen Badger]

I think that you will find that most atheists are more likely to have read the bible that the average christian.

From Matthew in the new testement.....

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So from this you can only conclude that ol' JC was shit hot and shiny on the old testement.

Just remembering that JC was jewish.

And don't get me started on revelations, John of Patmos had obviously ingested toooo many magic mushrooms.

[Rhizomorph13]

Zen,

An angel gave him a tablet that was sweet to his lips but soured his stomach. Mescaline maybe, or LSD? Ok, probably pure fabrication but I used to think the angel gave him a divine hallucinogen that brought fourth his revelations.

Rhizo

[norbrook]

Hey atheists!!...so, big news...ive been converted, totally see where you's are coming from....NAT!! lol, na, im just kidding im still a Christian, although after reading most of your posts i was a bit down. Seems you guys have all the "answers" or at least you's think you's do. A lot of you's seem to be quite arrogant, i posted this thread just to hear your opinions on a few things, but a lot of the posts come across as rude. I didnt do this thread to be questioned in what i believe in, you may think im irrational but its my opinion, and i could say the same of you.
Again, being so wise, you all seem to know your bibles "oh so well" (and i wouldn't even call myself an average Christian Zen, as i said before, im a pretty poor 1, but in relation to what you said, try reading Isaiah Ch 53, v 1-12)
This will be my last post for a while, im going to try and study my bible more, so that ill be able to answer your arguments more effectively. At the moment my knowledge of the bible, im ashamed to admit for a Christian is quite poor. Although i do no Psalm Ch 53 v 1.
Ill finish with Luke Ch 23 v 34 Then said Jesus, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."
All the best you guys, and as Arnie said "Ill be back"

[AnunZi]

This will be my last post for a while, im going to try and study my bible more, so that ill be able to answer your arguments more effectively.

I'm afraid to say that you won’t find answers to “our” arguments in a 2000 year old book written by goat herders. Best of luck though.