Posts: 2013
Threads: 28
Joined: January 1, 2017
Reputation:
15
This really got to me
January 3, 2017 at 11:54 pm
I can't post a link yet but it's something I heard in the Seth Andrews "The Thinking Atheist" podcast, the episode where the topic was "Psychoanalyzing God" (this is the only context in which I will ever deign to capitalize that hateful word, and it kills me even now to do it).
So, this preacher calls in to the show and they get on the topic of god communicating clearly to his creation if he wanted them all to be able to understand how to worship properly and that his failure to do so is the reason things are so fucked up.
The preacher said something that made me literally want to vomit in disgust at his stupidity. He said that god communicating his message clearly to every one of his creations would violate their free will.
What. The. Fucking. Fuck.
This whole free will thing already drives me up the wall, but dragging the clarity of a religion's message and its portrayal of its deity into it just destroys it. But when Seth tried to explain to this preacher that free will has less than nothing to do with the clarity of the means of communication between a creator and its creation. The preacher could scarcely have reacted differently than Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel. He literally did not understand how this could be. He literally could not see this thing that I could have pointed out in the first grade.
Someone please tell me I'm not deluded for thinking that religion genuinely decreases intelligence. Please. I'm willing to be a hypocrite and accept something that isn't true at this point as long as it keeps me from crying myself to sleep with how pathetic our species is capable of being.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
Posts: 29101
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
154
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 12:55 am
(This post was last modified: January 4, 2017 at 12:55 am by robvalue.)
Well, I think it can certainly decrease effective critical thinking. The kind of really bad thought that is required to rationalize religion to one's self can often leak into other subjects.
I am also sick of this "free will" garbage. God could tell me his message, word for word, personally, and I'd most likely just shrug and carry on regardless. If he means to say we have no choice but to worship him, then he's certainly wrong; unless God also decides to use mind control techniques.
Everything that ever happens to us affects our free will in some way. If God was so concerned with our freedom, he wouldn't have made the force of gravity in such a way that we can barely ever move from where we are. And even if we could, he made the atmosphere lethal to us. He's hampered our exploration of virtually 100% of our environment. That's affecting my free will a lot more than him telling me a load of rules he wants me to follow, which I can just ignore if I don't like them.
Posts: 2013
Threads: 28
Joined: January 1, 2017
Reputation:
15
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 1:15 am
(January 4, 2017 at 12:55 am)robvalue Wrote: Well, I think it can certainly decrease effective critical thinking. The kind of really bad thought that is required to rationalize religion to one's self can often leak into other subjects.
I am also sick of this "free will" garbage. God could tell me his message, word for word, personally, and I'd most likely just shrug and carry on regardless. If he means to say we have no choice but to worship him, then he's certainly wrong; unless God also decides to use mind control techniques.
Everything that ever happens to us affects our free will in some way. If God was so concerned with our freedom, he wouldn't have made the force of gravity in such a way that we can barely ever move from where we are. And even if we could, he made the atmosphere lethal to us. He's hampered our exploration of virtually 100% of our environment. That's affecting my free will a lot more than him telling me a load of rules he wants me to follow, which I can just ignore if I don't like them.
Well not to mention the carrot and stick of heaven and hell. I'd call massively stacked coercions a huge violation of free will.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
Posts: 69246
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
258
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 1:40 am
Quote:What. The. Fucking. Fuck.
Surely you expect nothing else from idiots like that?
Posts: 2013
Threads: 28
Joined: January 1, 2017
Reputation:
15
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 1:42 am
(This post was last modified: January 4, 2017 at 1:47 am by Astonished.)
(January 4, 2017 at 1:40 am)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:What. The. Fucking. Fuck.
Surely you expect nothing else from idiots like that?
No, but, this was seriously like the first time this adult human being had ever had this conversation and been challenged on it in that way. How can you not feel like a complete child and have any human dignity, enough to stand up in front of people and declare things like that? But these things aren't even insulting to them. "We're all god's children". "We're all too stupid to see the brilliance of god's plan". They rob us of our dignity lumping us in with them. Pisses me off almost as much as when they bring sin into the fucking equation.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
Posts: 69246
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
258
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 1:44 am
They do it every sunday. The bullshit sinks in after a while.
Posts: 2013
Threads: 28
Joined: January 1, 2017
Reputation:
15
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 1:49 am
(January 4, 2017 at 1:44 am)Minimalist Wrote: They do it every sunday. The bullshit sinks in after a while.
Here's what I want to know. "If you care so much about being allowed to have free will, why do you force you children to believe in what you believe in and not let them find things out on their own and make their own decisions?" This is why the idea of having knowledge of any such creator, or its divinity or nature, is completely contradictory to the idea that we can possibly have free will absent of coercion.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
Posts: 8781
Threads: 26
Joined: March 15, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 2:04 am
I'm pretty sure you either didn't understand what the preacher said or you have misquoted what he said. Christians do not always agree on free will or how much we have. It is certain we have some because we are given a choice to make about our eternal destination.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Posts: 2013
Threads: 28
Joined: January 1, 2017
Reputation:
15
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 2:08 am
Is someone following me now? Do they know I can't see anything they're writing? Because I've decided I have better things to do than waste my time babysitting. Changing shitty diapers and listening to whiny bawling just isn't my thing.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
Posts: 4238
Threads: 29
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
9
RE: This really got to me
January 4, 2017 at 5:01 am
(January 4, 2017 at 1:15 am)Astonished Wrote: (January 4, 2017 at 12:55 am)robvalue Wrote: Well, I think it can certainly decrease effective critical thinking. The kind of really bad thought that is required to rationalize religion to one's self can often leak into other subjects.
I am also sick of this "free will" garbage. God could tell me his message, word for word, personally, and I'd most likely just shrug and carry on regardless. If he means to say we have no choice but to worship him, then he's certainly wrong; unless God also decides to use mind control techniques.
Everything that ever happens to us affects our free will in some way. If God was so concerned with our freedom, he wouldn't have made the force of gravity in such a way that we can barely ever move from where we are. And even if we could, he made the atmosphere lethal to us. He's hampered our exploration of virtually 100% of our environment. That's affecting my free will a lot more than him telling me a load of rules he wants me to follow, which I can just ignore if I don't like them.
Well not to mention the carrot and stick of heaven and hell. I'd call massively stacked coercions a huge violation of free will.
Tell me something mate. 
Who ...........mention the carrot and stick of heaven and hell.............
Religions or God? 
|
