The fine tuning argument

[Shinylight]

Or God doesn't exist and the Universe has always existed.

I know which one I prefer.

[solja247]

Or God doesn't exist and the Universe has always existed.

I know which one I prefer.

But why? Marcelo Gleiser makes a great point:

Can science “explain” the age-old question of Creation? Certainly, physical models describing the origin of the cosmos can and have been proposed, at least since the 1970s. But these models face a serious technical obstacle: the lack of a proper theory to describe physical processes at the enormous energy scales prevalent during the first moments of cosmic history. They could be called scientific creation narratives, at least until they can be placed on more solid theoretical ground. We see old themes coming back, dressed in scientific jargon. In some models the universe was born out of “nothing,” a quantum vacuum populated by all sorts of ephemeral energy fluctuations; others see the beginning as essentially chaotic, with an ordered cosmos emerging homogeneously in three dimensions.

[Shinylight]

So because science doesn't know something you've decided to fill that gap with God?

You don't know how God started, I don't know how the Universe started, science can answer one of those questions. Making shit up will answer yours. Which one is more reliable?

[solja247]

So because science doesn't know something you've decided to fill that gap with God?

You don't know how God started, I don't know how the Universe started, science can answer one of those questions. Making shit up will answer yours. Which one is more reliable?

Im not using God of the gaps fallacy, we will never know how the universe started...
Science can only do so much...

[Minimalist]

Science can only do so much...

But it can do so much more than 'god.'

[solja247]

But it can do so much more than 'god.'

Like what?

Why is the universe governed by rules?

[Minimalist]

Science can provide answers.


God provides nothing.

[solja247]

God provides nothing.

Perhaps you are a blind person who is abseiling down a high cliff, they think they are holding themselves up, but it is the rope. They boast it is them who has the ability to climp up the cliff by themselves, yet, they cant see the rope or the neccesity of it either.

[Minimalist]

I can touch the rope. Your god is pure fantasy.

[Skipper]

God provides nothing.

Perhaps you are a blind person who is abseiling down a high cliff, they think they are holding themselves up, but it is the rope. They boast it is them who has the ability to climp up the cliff by themselves, yet, they cant see the rope or the neccesity of it either.

If the only information we had on the rope was passed down from a book written by different people at different points in time, hundreds and thousands of years after the ropes son walked the earth all with different accounts of how the rope works and then the information on the rope was passed down between generations and different versions of the rope were fought and killed for , then your example would be valid, but it's not, so don't be silly.