Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too
February 1, 2017 at 4:27 pm
(February 1, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: At least we believe in the possibility of true Justice.
I guess so. That old security blanket wishfull thinking. The idea on itself is appealing to me, that all the bad doers get justice, but I discarded that years ago. Who wouldn't want horrible murderes, rapists et al to find absolute justice.
L'sigh. In my opinion we should do our best to make us a better species, in reality and avoid procrastination imagining ultimate things.
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too
February 1, 2017 at 8:25 pm
My problem with that, is that it puts the idea of "God's absence" on the table.
I don't like those who go absent. An entity that go absent randomly without a clue, is a false God.
Being isolated from God is a punishment; controlled state, just like hell fire or oblivion. God can un-do it at any moment. In other words; he's "not absent", but the victim is a cursed; punished; that's why he can't see or feel God.
God can stop the cold at any moment.
I don't like those who go absent without a reason; at least with God I know the reasons that will lead me to the fate above.
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too
February 1, 2017 at 11:10 pm
(February 1, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Because it contradicts the mode of address Jesus explicitly instructed us to use, "Our Father". Also it contradicts the primary metaphor for our relationship to Him - the Divine Marriage. He is the Bridegroom; we are the Bride.
(February 1, 2017 at 12:58 am)Kosh Wrote: Life is cheap.
At least we believe in the possibility of true Justice.
What true Justice? Heaven? That justice is only for you though.. The chosen believers of your particular flavor of fantasy. The Abrahamic gods are like Trump on immigration.
Jewish - Your Christian or Muslim? GTFO
Muslim - Your Christian or Jewish? GTFO
Christian - Your Jewish or Muslim? GTFO
Two out of three are in for a sad sad time.
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too
February 2, 2017 at 2:18 pm
(February 1, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Because it contradicts the mode of address Jesus explicitly instructed us to use, "Our Father". Also it contradicts the primary metaphor for our relationship to Him - the Divine Marriage. He is the Bridegroom; we are the Bride.
I don't see it as a contradiction but as complimentary. God is BOTH father AND mother, groom AND bride. We are the bride? I have a dick. God does not. Don't you people advocate for "traditional gender rolls"?
In reality the things you are saying are contradicted by referring to God in the female sense are, themselves, contradictions to the idea of a genderless God. You can't, in one breath, say "God is genderless" and in the next say "You MUST refer to God in ONLY the masculine sense." THAT is a contradiction. If God is truly genderless then there is no reason to use only the masculine sense. Your only argument could be to use a gender-neutral word, but I very much doubt you would be okay with "it".
Let me explain it with a logical proof for you, since you apparently only speak Bullshittian.
1) God is genderless
2) To be genderless is to be completely devoid of all gender-specific traits
3) Male and female are equal genders, both God's creation, one not more exalted, important or superior
4) If it is an insult or slur to refer to a male as female then it is equally an insult or slur to refer to a female as male
5) Therefore if it is wrong to refer to a genderless being in the feminine sense it is equally wrong to refer to a genderless being in the masculine sense
6) It is not wrong to refer to God in the masculine sense
7) Therefore it is not wrong to refer to God in the feminine sense
Pick any point you like and prove it wrong.
Have you ever noticed all the drug commercials on TV lately? Why is it the side effects never include penile enlargement or super powers? Side effects may include super powers or enlarged penis which may become permanent with continued use. Stop taking Killatol immediately and consult your doctor if you experience penis enlargement of more than 3 inches, laser vision, superhuman strength, invulnerability, the ability to explode heads with your mind or time travel. Killatoll is not for everyone, especially those who already have convertibles or vehicles of ridiculous size to supplement penis size.
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too
February 2, 2017 at 3:00 pm
(February 2, 2017 at 2:18 pm)Asmodee Wrote:
(February 1, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Because it contradicts the mode of address Jesus explicitly instructed us to use, "Our Father". Also it contradicts the primary metaphor for our relationship to Him - the Divine Marriage. He is the Bridegroom; we are the Bride.
I don't see it as a contradiction but as complimentary. God is BOTH father AND mother, groom AND bride. We are the bride? I have a dick. God does not. Don't you people advocate for "traditional gender rolls"?
In reality the things you are saying are contradicted by referring to God in the female sense are, themselves, contradictions to the idea of a genderless God. You can't, in one breath, say "God is genderless" and in the next say "You MUST refer to God in ONLY the masculine sense." THAT is a contradiction. If God is truly genderless then there is no reason to use only the masculine sense. Your only argument could be to use a gender-neutral word, but I very much doubt you would be okay with "it".
Let me explain it with a logical proof for you, since you apparently only speak Bullshittian.
1) God is genderless
2) To be genderless is to be completely devoid of all gender-specific traits
3) Male and female are equal genders, both God's creation, one not more exalted, important or superior
4) If it is an insult or slur to refer to a male as female then it is equally an insult or slur to refer to a female as male
5) Therefore if it is wrong to refer to a genderless being in the feminine sense it is equally wrong to refer to a genderless being in the masculine sense
6) It is not wrong to refer to God in the masculine sense
7) Therefore it is not wrong to refer to God in the feminine sense
Pick any point you like and prove it wrong.
You're confused. The point is not that God has a gender. 'He' doesn't. The issue is our relationship with God is like that of children with their Father.
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too
February 2, 2017 at 6:12 pm (This post was last modified: February 2, 2017 at 6:18 pm by Asmodee.)
(February 2, 2017 at 3:00 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(February 2, 2017 at 2:18 pm)Asmodee Wrote: I don't see it as a contradiction but as complimentary. God is BOTH father AND mother, groom AND bride. We are the bride? I have a dick. God does not. Don't you people advocate for "traditional gender rolls"?
In reality the things you are saying are contradicted by referring to God in the female sense are, themselves, contradictions to the idea of a genderless God. You can't, in one breath, say "God is genderless" and in the next say "You MUST refer to God in ONLY the masculine sense." THAT is a contradiction. If God is truly genderless then there is no reason to use only the masculine sense. Your only argument could be to use a gender-neutral word, but I very much doubt you would be okay with "it".
Let me explain it with a logical proof for you, since you apparently only speak Bullshittian.
1) God is genderless
2) To be genderless is to be completely devoid of all gender-specific traits
3) Male and female are equal genders, both God's creation, one not more exalted, important or superior
4) If it is an insult or slur to refer to a male as female then it is equally an insult or slur to refer to a female as male
5) Therefore if it is wrong to refer to a genderless being in the feminine sense it is equally wrong to refer to a genderless being in the masculine sense
6) It is not wrong to refer to God in the masculine sense
7) Therefore it is not wrong to refer to God in the feminine sense
Pick any point you like and prove it wrong.
You're confused. The point is not that God has a gender. 'He' doesn't. The issue is our relationship with God is like that of children with their Father.
You're confused. My father never wanted to make me his bride.
And I noticed you didn't address my logical proof, which still holds "she" is equally accurate.
And if our relationship with God were ONLY "like that of children with their father" and not ALSO "like that of children with their mother" then that means that God has at least one gender-specific trait, meaning she is not genderless as is being claimed.
Have you ever noticed all the drug commercials on TV lately? Why is it the side effects never include penile enlargement or super powers? Side effects may include super powers or enlarged penis which may become permanent with continued use. Stop taking Killatol immediately and consult your doctor if you experience penis enlargement of more than 3 inches, laser vision, superhuman strength, invulnerability, the ability to explode heads with your mind or time travel. Killatoll is not for everyone, especially those who already have convertibles or vehicles of ridiculous size to supplement penis size.
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL
February 26, 2017 at 2:39 am
(January 22, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
(January 17, 2017 at 12:41 am)Godschild Wrote: We've been through this before but, I went and checked three different translation and the word evil is better translated as calamity. You should get yourself a different translation. You should. have gone on and read verses 9,10 and 11.
GC
Yes, we have been through it before, G-C and you are still a liar.
Quote:
Jubilee Bible 2000
I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil: I am the LORD that does all this.
King James 2000 Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create calamity: I the LORD do all these things.
American King James Version
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Douay-Rheims Bible
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.
Darby Bible Translation
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.
English Revised Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
Webster's Bible Translation
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
World English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
Young's Literal Translation
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Of 12 translations 10 say "EVIL" and two say "calamity." Which only goes to show that someone with a fucking agenda can make this happy horseshit say whatever they want it to say.
This verse is Isaiah 45:7 - doesn't mean moral evil (another Hebrew word for that).
evil: distress, adversity: יָרֵא רַע fear evil Psalm 23:4; Zephaniah 3:15; בּוֺרֵא רָ֑ע Isaiah 45:7 http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7451.htm
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too
March 3, 2017 at 4:14 am
(March 3, 2017 at 3:38 am)TheAtheologian Wrote: Unfortunately, that won't work for the theist since they can say this:
A. Evil is the contradiction of moral truth.
B. People are free to contradict moral truth, and is morally permissible to allow it.
If A and B are true, this argument presented falls apart.
You have two options here:
1. Throw out the argument made in this forum.
2. Demonstrate that at least one of these (A or B) is flawed.
I wouldn't exactly add this to my list of arguments, but it could be made part of a larger argument.
It's morally permissible for a perfectly good being to allow people to a contradict moral truth? that seems like creating evil to me. By the fact of first making the decision to allow the act in the first place .Or worst by creating the actor in the first place.
Evil contradicting moral truth first assumes the theists god is moral truth or has moral truth if not he has neither .Then he most certainly can be evil or the creator of evil without contradiction .Because there nothing inherent to being god the grants him either.
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
RE: If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too
March 3, 2017 at 4:39 am
(March 3, 2017 at 4:14 am)Orochi Wrote:
(March 3, 2017 at 3:38 am)TheAtheologian Wrote: Unfortunately, that won't work for the theist since they can say this:
A. Evil is the contradiction of moral truth.
B. People are free to contradict moral truth, and is morally permissible to allow it.
If A and B are true, this argument presented falls apart.
You have two options here:
1. Throw out the argument made in this forum.
2. Demonstrate that at least one of these (A or B) is flawed.
I wouldn't exactly add this to my list of arguments, but it could be made part of a larger argument.
It's morally permissible for a perfectly good being to allow people to a contradict moral truth? that seems like creating evil to me. By the fact of first making the decision to allow the act in the first place .Or worst by creating the actor in the first place.
If A is true, then it is impossible to literally create evil, since evil is just a contradiction of moral truths. However, it can be argued that creating the prerequisites for the possibility of evil would be a contradiction of moral truths. This depends on whether these prerequisites for the possibility of evil are consistent with moral truths. If so, then there is no inconsistency here. Can you think of a reason that creating the prerequisites for evil to be possible is synonymous with contradicting moral truth?
Quote:Evil contradicting moral truth first assumes the theists god is moral truth or has moral truth if not he has neither .Then he most certainly can be evil or the creator of evil without contradiction .Because there nothing inherent to being god the grants him either.
Theists (Christians, Muslims, and Jews) believe God is moral truth, that is in their concept. Since this concept entails God being one with morality (synonymous with morality), God is inherently omnibenevolent.
Of course, I don't even believe in objective moral truths myself, but I was just granting them for the sake of this case.
