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You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
#21
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
(January 20, 2017 at 8:59 am)robvalue Wrote: Isn't there something about not covering your neighbour's ass in marmite?

Is it really necessary that it be written? I've always known not to do that. You might say it's engraved on my heart.  Angel
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#22
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
My neighbour's ass' owner's husband could kick my ass with both hands tied behind his back, so that's my motivation.
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#23
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
(January 20, 2017 at 9:16 am)robvalue Wrote: My neighbour's ass' owner's husband could kick my ass with both hands tied behind his back, so that's my motivation.

Yeah, there's that.

But also: marmite
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#24
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
(January 20, 2017 at 1:10 am)Astreja Wrote: The problem with the 10 Commandments is that they're written in negative language, and I think that could actually cause the unintended consequence of the unconscious mind discarding the negatives and interpreting them as "kill," "steal," "adultery," "bear false witness," and "covet."

I can get on board with "Be sure to take time off and get some rest at least once a week," "Support your family," "Protect life," "Respect others' possessions," "Be faithful to your partner," "Speak the truth," and "Enjoy what you have."  The ones regarding worship, though, definitely aren't needed if you don't believe there's anything to worship.

So I get reformulating things "I am god, this is my day, respect it" into "Be sure to take time off and get some rest at least once a week"...
And I kinda get how a positive affirmation of something you should do, might be more desirable than claims of what you shouldn't.
But I'm not sure anyone who decided to commit murder would be like "oh shit, I just got the commandments confused...sorry".
The law works in a similar way, it isn't a duty to protect life, it is a duty not to destroy it unnecessarily.  I'm not really aware of people getting confused about that duty. 

Maybe you could expand on this a bit?  Some references explaining how the human brain tends to do something like this would be pretty cool.
I wouldn't be surprised if we fuck up like this all the time...but I would be surprised if it wasn't related to how often the negative instruction is reinforced.

I.e.
My mom tells me not to do X once, but a few years later I get it confused.
My pastor from when I was younger repeats the "Do Not Kill mantra" once a month, I am unlikely to confuse it with  " kill kill kill" in the future.
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#25
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
(January 20, 2017 at 1:22 pm)Aristocatt Wrote: Maybe you could expand on this a bit?  Some references explaining how the human brain tends to do something like this would be pretty cool.
I wouldn't be surprised if we fuck up like this all the time...but I would be surprised if it wasn't related to how often the negative instruction is reinforced.

I'm currently at work and don't have sufficient time to write a detailed reply on this, but just wanted to let you know that I'm on it.  This evening from home I'll do some research and post what I find at that time.
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#26
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
(January 20, 2017 at 12:47 am)pool the great Wrote: The ten commandments are in my opinion guidelines. There is no harm in following them.

Quote:You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.
Respect your father and mother.
You must not commit murder.
You must not commit adultery.
You must not steal.
You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.

These are good guidelines imo. You can follow the good ones and ignore the one about God if you like but at the end of the day these are good principles to live with. Credit where credit is due.

As an atheist, the first four are right out the window. Do not covet/be envious is not a thing you can control. You can't help what you think, only what you do, which is covered under not stealing or killing. So the last one is meaningless. That's five out of ten that I would just throw out.

As for respecting parents, that depends heavily on whether or not the parents deserve respect. You could search up a long internet list of people who make shitty parents. 

Murdering and stealing is fine. Very common laws in any society. 

Adultery is a problem that arises from deep puritan attitudes against sexual exploration. We should know it's a bad idea to get into a lifelong contract with someone when you don't know if you're sexually compatible or not, and since adultery usually concerns sex, it seems that is a very important part of a relationship. I wouldn't make adultery illegal. I just wouldn't demonize premarital sex either.

Don't give false evidence is fine.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#27
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
(January 20, 2017 at 12:47 am)pool the great Wrote: The ten commandments are in my opinion guidelines. There is no harm in following them.

Quote:You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.
Respect your father and mother.
You must not commit murder.
You must not commit adultery.
You must not steal.
You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.

These are good guidelines imo. You can follow the good ones and ignore the one about God if you like but at the end of the day these are good principles to live with. Credit where credit is due.


From here to

You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.
Respect your father and mother.

Here are out.

You must not commit murder.

I can get on board with that one.

You must not commit adultery.

Why is this so high on the list?

You must not steal.

Ok that's two I can agree with.

You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.

This is a strange one isn't it but apparently above paedophilia which I expect is coming up anytime now.

You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Envy! this is thought crime and anyway why should I look at my neighbours stuff and go "I like that white vase"



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#28
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
Thou Shalt Not Covert Thy Neighbour's Ass Unless She Is Very Very Hot And Likes Anal
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#29
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
(January 20, 2017 at 12:47 am)pool the great Wrote: These are good guidelines imo. You can follow the good ones and ignore the one about God if you like but at the end of the day these are good principles to live with. Credit where credit is due.

So they're good guidelines provided you ignore most of them. Seems to defeat the purpose of a guideline. I mean I think the same could be said of Mein Kampf. Yeah it's got lots of horrid stuff in it but once you just ignore all that it becomes a very wholesome read.
I am John Cena's hip-hop album.
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#30
RE: You can be an atheist and still follow the ten commandments as guidelines
Okay, I've done a little bit of research on the brain's processing of positives versus negatives, and have this to report: 

  1. First of all, it's not as simple as it appears.  Most instances I found of the "brain cannot process negatives" trope were on sites devoted to pop psychology rather than peer-reviewed journals.
  2. Secondly, the actual structure of the statement determines how the brain processes it.  Link:  True or False?  How Our Brain Processes Negative Statements (Association for Psychological Science).  The presence of a negative word does not automatically cause the brain to struggle with it, but the more syntactically complex a sentence is, the longer the reaction time.
  3. What I found particularly interesting is that the brain processes affirmative and negative statements in different regions.  Link:  Negative and affirmative sentences increase activation in different areas in the brain (Journal of Neurolinguistics - abstract only)
It's also noteworthy that emotional content determines how we process and remember things.  Probably for survival reasons, we react more quickly to negative stimuli (not to be confused with negative statements, although it's possible for specific words and ideas to act as triggers).
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