Posts: 64
Threads: 6
Joined: January 20, 2017
Reputation:
2
God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 10:16 am
(This post was last modified: January 27, 2017 at 10:18 am by phoenix31.)
The church I came from believes in current-day healings and miracles. They believe everyone should be praying and watching for miracles, not that only a few chosen holy superstars have the privilege of seeing miracles.
They believe sickness is not from God. It is a result of the sin and death that came into the world when Adam and Eve sinned in a literal Garden of Eden. They believe it's their job to bring heaven to earth until Jesus comes again. They go to shopping malls and pray for random people, believing they get a type of psychic word from God about people's ailments.
They believe God loves us so much and wants a relationship with us, so he has chosen to partner with us by limiting himself to working through our prayers. So everything in life is an epic struggle between evil (sin gives demons spiritual authority to wreak havoc in people's lives) and good. Our prayers are the tipping point.
If someone does not get healed, they either have sin in their life or the church as a whole is not breaking through the barrier of evil in the world and needs to pray, and worship, and have more faith.
I don't believe in God, but supposing I did, I think that if the God of Christianity is omniscient, it makes him unfair. He created all of us knowing that many people would suffer in horrible agony. They just say it's not his fault, it's our fault. Sin caused the problem and the good news is everyone can overcome it.
I am just mulling these things over and am curious, if you have the time to respond, what you would say to them if you were in my place.
Posts: 10725
Threads: 15
Joined: September 9, 2011
Reputation:
119
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 10:20 am
Yep, completely unfalsifiable; just like the church I was raised in (United Pentecostal on my dad's side, Assembly of God on my mother's).
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Posts: 7568
Threads: 20
Joined: July 26, 2013
Reputation:
54
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 10:25 am
What would I say? Something along the lines of, "I know you want to feel that you are at the center of a cosmic struggle and that this belief gives you a sense of meaning, but that's your inflated ego, masquerading as humility, talking -- not reality."
Posts: 6843
Threads: 0
Joined: February 22, 2014
Reputation:
15
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 4:55 pm
Suppose a deity such as the one being discussed exists and causes people to suffer. There would be no real reason why the people who suffer need to have souls. They could just be "androids" of some type whose purpose is to see how the real people with "souls" react to their suffering and misery and evil acts.
So if you, as a believer, don't follow the doctrine that you profess to believe in then it's you who is the real sinner and not the "android" who is acting as your enemy or the source of your discomfort.
It's like some version of "The Twilight Zone" or "The Matrix" in which the world didn't exist until you were born and will cease to exist when you die. It's all a test to see how you will respond, like Job.
Posts: 3064
Threads: 3
Joined: July 10, 2016
Reputation:
37
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 5:03 pm
(This post was last modified: January 27, 2017 at 5:04 pm by Jesster.)
If you pray to me, eventually something good will happen. It's just as easy to attribute that "miracle" to my divine intervention as it would be to any other source. If the exact thing you wanted to happen did not actually happen, then it wasn't part of my plan. You can't prove it one way or another and there's no good reason to actually believe it. Like Mister Agenda said, it's completely unfalsifiable.
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 5:33 pm
Quote:It is a result of the sin and death that came into the world when Adam and Eve sinned in a literal Garden of Eden.
They sound like a bunch of primitive fuckheads.
Posts: 28406
Threads: 524
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 6:28 pm
I see no reason why they would need health care, at all!
Did they/you utilize health care?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Posts: 64
Threads: 6
Joined: January 20, 2017
Reputation:
2
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 7:04 pm
(January 27, 2017 at 6:28 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I see no reason why they would need health care, at all!
Did they/you utilize health care?
"God uses doctors too."
Posts: 28406
Threads: 524
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 7:11 pm
(January 27, 2017 at 7:04 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: (January 27, 2017 at 6:28 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I see no reason why they would need health care, at all!
Did they/you utilize health care?
"God uses doctors too."
Bullshit. If they used doctors/medicine and didn't cure the sickness/sin through prayer they are hypocrites.
The next time you see a doctor for a sickness, receive treatment and get better, be sure to call the doctor and tell them that god did it. praise the lord!
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Posts: 46369
Threads: 540
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: God limits himself to working through prayer
January 27, 2017 at 8:08 pm
(January 27, 2017 at 7:04 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: (January 27, 2017 at 6:28 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I see no reason why they would need health care, at all!
Did they/you utilize health care?
"God uses doctors too."
Funny thing about that - doctors have sufficient medical training to heal the sick. I'm unaware of any relevant statistics, but I doubt the success rate of atheist doctors is very much different than that of theist doctors. So, it seems that the success or failure of a medical procedure is manifestly not dependent on whether God puts his finger in it or not.
In other words, when it comes to medicine (and everything else) God is a useless hypothesis.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
|
