Intercessory prayer is pointless

[RobbyPants]

This was an old thread I made at TTA, and was reminded of by another here. I figured I'd post this separately.

Christians frequently engage in intercessory prayer. When I went to church, it was a weekly thing, and people going through any amount of trouble talk about it all the time. This is all based on Christian's own ideas that God is effectively "able and willing" to fix a problem that he caused/allowed, and also that he has a will, and his will will "be done".

The sad thing is, regardless of if you're talking about a sickness, natural disaster, or some other "act of God" type of problem, the outcome is always the same. There are three ways and only three ways this can play out. For this discussion, we won't worry about why God caused or allowed the problem. That will be chalked up to [mysterious ways]. Starting from that point, one of three things will happen:

• God caused/allowed the problem for some reason, and he plans on fixing it. Perhaps this was to strengthen people, or whatever. The reason is moot. He caused/allowed it, and he's fixing it, anyway. Prayer does nothing in this case.
  
• God caused/allowed the problem for some reason, and he is not fixing it. Again, the reason doesn't matter. Maybe it's just that person's time. Regardless, prayer does nothing in this case.
  
• God caused/allowed the problem and will make it persist unless people pray to fix it. Then, and only then, does God fix the problem. So, the good news is prayer works in this case. The bad news is, the problem only exists in the first place so God can coax people into asking him to fix it. What the shit?
  

And that's it. There's no magical fourth option that both has prayer working and God not being a massive twat. I knew a guy like that in college. He'd cause problems just so he could fix him, and everyone hated that guy. We didn't sing his praises; we cut all ties with him.

[Minimalist]

[Dom]

Damn. Are you saying all those prayer warriors on Facebook are wrong?

---

So I went to youtube to find a clip of a crazy prayer warrior who inherited some money from someone - and when she went there she was in a house of the devil. It's hilarious, but I couldn't find it. I did find someone calling all prayer warriors to pray to have Joy Behar removed from the View because she said that religion was a mental disease. The concept is hilarious, but the clip was stupid so I didn't bring it. Wish I knew where to find that other one...

[Joods]

Well... Peter Popoff does have that miracle water.

[brewer]

OP: I don't think you've seen me pray with a knife.

(I must be channeling Valk)

[The Valkyrie]

OP: I don't think you've seen me pray with a knife.

(I must be channeling Valk)

Step back, amateur!

[KevinM1]

This was an old thread I made at TTA, and was reminded of by another here. I figured I'd post this separately.

Christians frequently engage in intercessory prayer. When I went to church, it was a weekly thing, and people going through any amount of trouble talk about it all the time. This is all based on Christian's own ideas that God is effectively "able and willing" to fix a problem that he caused/allowed, and also that he has a will, and his will will "be done".

The sad thing is, regardless of if you're talking about a sickness, natural disaster, or some other "act of God" type of problem, the outcome is always the same. There are three ways and only three ways this can play out. For this discussion, we won't worry about why God caused or allowed the problem. That will be chalked up to [mysterious ways]. Starting from that point, one of three things will happen:

• God caused/allowed the problem for some reason, and he plans on fixing it. Perhaps this was to strengthen people, or whatever. The reason is moot. He caused/allowed it, and he's fixing it, anyway. Prayer does nothing in this case.
  
• God caused/allowed the problem for some reason, and he is not fixing it. Again, the reason doesn't matter. Maybe it's just that person's time. Regardless, prayer does nothing in this case.
  
• God caused/allowed the problem and will make it persist unless people pray to fix it. Then, and only then, does God fix the problem. So, the good news is prayer works in this case. The bad news is, the problem only exists in the first place so God can coax people into asking him to fix it. What the shit?
  

And that's it. There's no magical fourth option that both has prayer working and God not being a massive twat. I knew a guy like that in college. He'd cause problems just so he could fix him, and everyone hated that guy. We didn't sing his praises; we cut all ties with him.

Theists seem to have this weird fascination with their deity testing their faith. That their god will purposely put them through bullshit just to see if they continue to love/believe/worship them when things are difficult. In any other context, it would be considered abusive.

[Minimalist]

They're happy that their god is a dick.

[AFTT47]

This was an old thread I made at TTA, and was reminded of by another here. I figured I'd post this separately.

Christians frequently engage in intercessory prayer. When I went to church, it was a weekly thing, and people going through any amount of trouble talk about it all the time. This is all based on Christian's own ideas that God is effectively "able and willing" to fix a problem that he caused/allowed, and also that he has a will, and his will will "be done".

The sad thing is, regardless of if you're talking about a sickness, natural disaster, or some other "act of God" type of problem, the outcome is always the same. There are three ways and only three ways this can play out. For this discussion, we won't worry about why God caused or allowed the problem. That will be chalked up to [mysterious ways]. Starting from that point, one of three things will happen:

• God caused/allowed the problem for some reason, and he plans on fixing it. Perhaps this was to strengthen people, or whatever. The reason is moot. He caused/allowed it, and he's fixing it, anyway. Prayer does nothing in this case.
  
• God caused/allowed the problem for some reason, and he is not fixing it. Again, the reason doesn't matter. Maybe it's just that person's time. Regardless, prayer does nothing in this case.
  
• God caused/allowed the problem and will make it persist unless people pray to fix it. Then, and only then, does God fix the problem. So, the good news is prayer works in this case. The bad news is, the problem only exists in the first place so God can coax people into asking him to fix it. What the shit?
  

And that's it. There's no magical fourth option that both has prayer working and God not being a massive twat. I knew a guy like that in college. He'd cause problems just so he could fix him, and everyone hated that guy. We didn't sing his praises; we cut all ties with him.

Theists seem to have this weird fascination with their deity testing their faith.  That their god will purposely put them through bullshit just to see if they continue to love/believe/worship them when things are difficult.  In any other context, it would be considered abusive.

Kind of silly since an omniscient being would have no need to test his subjects. He already knows the limits of their faith - just as he knows everything else! This is the kind of thing that amazes me isn't instantly obvious to everyone!

I know it was probably the worst Star Trek ever but the line spoken by William Shatner in Star Trek V says it all: "Excuse me, what need does God have for a starship?"

Yeah, no shit! You don't have to be James T Kirk to spot a phony.

Why does God need to test his subjects when he is omniscient?

Why does God need the Israelites to mark their houses during Passover so he will know which babies to not murder when he is omniscient?

Why is God surprised when Adam and Eve are deceived by the serpent? If he is truly omniscient, he would have known this would happen.


The whole God thing is completely idiotic. If you examine it closely, you can't miss it.

[robvalue]

It is absolutely bizarre to me. Even as a young child I was dumbfounded by the idea.

I just realized what it actually is: passive aggression at God.

"I hope X is part of your plan. If it is, then do it. If it isn't, then don't do it. In other words, just do whatever you were going to do if I hadn't made this prayer. But, you know, I really hope it happens. You know what you're doing though. Just pretend I'm not here."