Is religion a crutch?

[ThortheMighty]

This was Marx's belief and I am inclined to believe that he was correct at some level.

I don't see necessarly that religious people (particularly those belonging to a specific creed) are much better or kinder than others.

My mom is a perfect example. She is somewhat depressive and has always had a hard time coping in life. She often takes and took her rages/frustrations out on my brothers and I and her husband (our father) . She is very religious and devout and loves the Catholic Church, while criticizing parts of it.

I understand why she likes it so much. The Catholic churches are often very beautiful and at certain Masses, sometimes a priest will say something very moving and profound.

Yet I believe it is a crutch/coping mechanism for my mother too. She has a lot going on in her life that she is unhappy with and religion provides her with the "release" she needs.

I joined this group some years ago https://spo.org/, basically the Catholic version of Campus crusade for Christ. Many of the people in it were friendly enough, but somewhat narrow minded and rigid in their thinking. Catholocism and Catholic issues were literally all that interested some of them, and they did not seem to have a strong sense of "self" outside the Catholic religion (sometimes the most hardcore manifestation of it.)

The only issues many of them posted on their facebook statuses were about abortion, the dangers of premarital sex etc. Save the whales? Tibet? Gun control? There were almost literally no causes or concerns outside of Catholic stuff they thought worth mentioning or thinking about.

In short, a lot of them were sort of losers, in terms of their personalities. They weren't that compassionate either. They bascially liked you or had sympathy for you if you bought into the Catholic Church 100%. Gays, free thinkers, uppity women, Muslims etc. were not worth their time or consideration.

I basically came to the conclusion that SPO and things like it were for "weak" people. People with no strong personalities or opinions or interesting hobbies who wanted to be sheltered and taken care of, while shutting out the rest of the world as "Evil" or at least inferior.

So is religion a crutch? Is it for people who don't have lives? I am curious to know.

[Whateverist]

If it is, it is one that people are taught to use as naturally as they are their legs for walking.  But it could be that god belief actually accomplished some sort of breakthrough in consciousness for human beings, actually increasing our capacity for critical thought as Julian Jaynes suggests in The Origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind.  Even if we don't accept the precise arc of events he describes there it could be a rough approximation for something positive which god belief played a role in.  Of course, it would be still more positive if in the end we see through the whole god thing.

[TheRealJoeFish]

Proof: yes.

[Aegon]

I'd say so. It comforts people. It fills a "hole" in them that makes them feel complete, Reminds me of this comic:

[The Grand Nudger]

If it is, it is one that people are taught to use as naturally as they are their legs for walking.  But it could be that god belief actually accomplished some sort of breakthrough in consciousness for human beings, actually increasing our capacity for critical thought as Julian Jaynes suggests in The Origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind.  Even if we don't accept the precise arc of events he describes there it could be a rough approximation for something positive which god belief played a role in.  Of course, it would be still more positive if in the end we see through the whole god thing.

Trashing the entirety of bicamerial mind such would still be the case, as the morality plays of greek divine comedy (and drama) were nothing -if not- an exploration of human consciousness.  They still stand, thousands of years later, as a subset of the most elaborate descriptions in the western tradition of what it is and means to be human, to be, and to be conscious of being human.

(I point out greek traditions simply because of wide familiarity, but such is the case with any pantheon..they're all explorations of being, and of humanity by proxy - even the christer ones)

[MTL]

This was Marx's belief and I am inclined to believe that he was correct at some level.

I don't see necessarly that religious people (particularly those belonging to a specific creed) are much better or kinder than others.

My mom is a perfect example. She is somewhat depressive and has always had a hard time coping in life. She often takes and took her rages/frustrations out on my brothers and I and her husband (our father) . She is very religious and devout and loves the Catholic Church, while criticizing parts of it.

I understand why she likes it so much. The Catholic churches are often very beautiful and at certain Masses, sometimes a priest will say something very moving and profound.

Yet I believe it is a crutch/coping mechanism for my mother too. She has a lot going on in her life that she is unhappy with and religion provides her with the "release" she needs.

I joined this group some years ago https://spo.org/, basically the Catholic version of Campus crusade for Christ. Many of the people in it were friendly enough, but somewhat narrow minded and rigid in their thinking. Catholocism and Catholic issues were literally all that interested some of them, and they did not seem to have a strong sense of "self" outside the Catholic religion (sometimes the most hardcore manifestation of it.)

The only issues many of them posted on their facebook statuses were about abortion, the dangers of premarital sex etc. Save the whales? Tibet? Gun control? There were almost literally no causes or concerns outside of Catholic stuff they thought worth mentioning or thinking about.

In short, a lot of them were sort of losers, in terms of their personalities. They weren't that compassionate either. They bascially liked you or had sympathy for you if you bought into the Catholic Church 100%. Gays, free thinkers, uppity women, Muslims etc. were not worth their time or consideration.

I basically came to the conclusion that SPO and things like it were for "weak" people. People with no strong personalities or opinions or interesting hobbies who wanted to be sheltered and taken care of, while shutting out the rest of the world as "Evil" or at least inferior.

So is religion a crutch? Is it for people who don't have lives? I am curious to know.

IMO,

Different people subscribe to religion for different reasons:

- Some people need the promise of the Hereafter
...they can't handle the idea of final death, or the idea that they'll never see their loved-ones again
(or maybe they want a level of Justice that cannot be meted-out here on Earth,
so they cling to the idea of reward & punishment in Eternity)

- Some people (the lonely) need God's Unconditional Love

- Some (death-row inmates?) need a type of Forgiveness that they believe only God can give.

- Some people are just insecure and need to feel Holier-Than-Thou
....they like to know God is on their side, and not on yours,

- Some people don't believe in God at all, but make a career out of pretending to,
to earn a paycheque, to molest children, to control people, to justify wars.


I personally feel that for many, religion is definitely a crutch...particularly for "born-again" or AA Christians;
Alcohol was their crutch before....now Jesus is.  That's all.

For many, it is not only a crutch, but an addiction, sometimes one that's been inflicted upon them since birth,
like an infant born to a crack addict mother.  Sorry to be harsh, but I think that's a pretty fair comparison.

You say your mother is depressive and religion gives her a release;
I don't know you or your mother, so forgive my presumption,
but based on my own experience,
I would say that the "release" provided by religion is the same "release" a heroin-addict feels upon injecting their drug,
or a smoker feels upon the first drag of their cigarette during their smoke-break:

They wouldn't need that release if they didn't have the addiction in the first place,
and they have come to depend upon the use of the very thing that is destroying them, to feel better.

I will, as one raised in the Baptist church, readily acknowledge that church has its good points:
I love the old stone buildings, the vaulted ceilings, the stained glass, the sense of tranquility and sanctity,
the music, the sense of community...maybe it even promotes structure and standards
....I don't mind stating plainly that I miss those elements.

But I have previously compared religion to the way nature has flourished in man's absence at Chernobyl, in the aftermath of the meltdown:
nature has rebounded there, and the earth takes the city back
...but it flourishes upon a corrosive and noxious thing.

I want to applaud your recognition that religious people are not necessarily better or kinder;
indeed I would say that religion frequently fosters judgmental, controlling behavior,
sometimes well-intentioned, sometimes not,
and is often used as a vehicle to abuse others with a degree of impunity.

I also applaud your observation that what issues those members of your Catholic group deem to be of importance and deserving of their attention,
is woefully misguided, short-sighted, irrelevant in today's society, and essentially meaningless.  Catholics are so saturated  with their rituals and recitations and guilt;

Now, perhaps it is somewhat due to my being born into a Baptist home,
but I've always found Catholics to be a particularly strange type of believer;
they're ostensibly "Christian".....but they have this whole heirarchy, with the Pope at the top,
and seem to treat him and Mary with more importance that God.

It seems so close  to worshiping God, but stops just short of it;
it seems to function almost independently of God, and ultimately without apology for doing so.
It is top-heavy with graven objects and idols, which Christ, in the Bible spoke out against.

It's like they're Christian, but not Christian at the same time;
it's like an optical illusion your mind keeps struggling to resolve;


Forgive me, but it's like this, to me:





I don't say any of this to be gratuitously insulting,
I'm just not pulling any punches.

I'm giving my sincere response.

[Angrboda]

What's the difference between a crutch and a healthy coping mechanism? A hobby and an obsession? It seems like you are simply saying that because the religious occupy themselves with the business of being religious, that this is somehow bad in and of itself. That doesn't seem to follow. A soccer mom who is involved in her kids' lives isn't criticized for needing "the crutch" of raising children. Where do you draw the line between otherwise innocuous behavior and a "crutch?"

[Whateverist]

Dear Gawd! Now I see the face of Christ as for the first time in that dogs asshole. Forgive me lord.

[MTL]

What's the difference between a crutch and a healthy coping mechanism?  A hobby and an obsession?

Where do you draw the line between otherwise innocuous behavior and a "crutch?"

bold, mine.

Healthy coping mechanisms are healthy.

Crutches usually aren't.

A soccer mom having a few kids, and has other interests, too, is healthy:  not a crutch.

women who keep having babies for attention, and have no life outside of that, isn't:  crutch.


Personally, I would say,

A healthy coping mechanism means you are "managing" your problems.

A crutch means your problems are managing you.


But it's ultimately for the individual to decide; they have to be honest with themselves.


And, just because a person has a crutch, doesn't mean I necessarily have a problem with them.


Take my example of the "born-again" AA Christian.

I said alcohol was his crutch, and now Jesus is.

Neither crutch would be a problem for me if it only affects him:

he is a grown man, if he wants to pickle his liver in order to cope with life, that's his business...
....unless he drives while drunk.
Then I take issue with his crutch.

If he finds Jesus, and Jesus is a preferable coping mechanism to alcohol, for him, then fine...
....until he shows up on my doorstep (which he did) and harasses me with his religion
because he thinks everyone is just like him (which everyone is not).
Then I take issue with his crutch.

[Crunchy]

I'd say it's a crutch at times but the thing is... some people really do need a crutch.   

I feel for them but not when they force me or others to use a crutch that we don't need.