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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 11:05 am
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2017 at 11:08 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Steve already did us the honor. You can join the conversation at any time, you know. 
If you feel compelled to eviscerate that one, there will just be another...and another....and another, so on and so forth, ad infinitum. The failures of your imagination are no one else's problem.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 11:07 am
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2017 at 11:09 am by Neo-Scholastic.)
(February 23, 2017 at 10:13 am)bennyboy Wrote: (February 23, 2017 at 12:53 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Indeed. It has nothing to to say about the meaning or value of life. But "atheism" isn't a thing. People are atheists. Which means people who have no God. Ergo, people who have no known justification for believing that life has ultimate meaning or life has value. Unless you have one.
No?
Didn't think so.
People who have no God. . . Ergo, people who have no reason not to eat babies, rape children, and stick cactuses up their asses.
Oh wait, there is a reason. . . it just so happens that people (for the most part) don't LIKE doing any of those things. They like getting out of bed, acting like their day matters, trying to get laid and fed, and seeking pleasure.
"Because it's in our nature" is sufficient justification for us to do thing things that are . . . in our nature.
That really side-steps the issue, at least with respect to moral nihilism. Having preferences and natural instincts are not the same as having obligations or moral prohibitions.
(February 23, 2017 at 11:05 am)Khemikal Wrote: Steve already did us the honor. You can join the conversation at any time, you know.
If you feel compelled to eviscerate that one, there will just be another...and another....and another, so on and so forth, ad infinitum.
Perhaps, but what is yours. C'mon step up to the plate.
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 11:17 am
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2017 at 11:17 am by Whateverist.)
(February 22, 2017 at 9:55 pm)SteveII Wrote: The distinction is that a "no god" epistemology gives you subjective value/meaning/purpose which leave it open to a matter of opinion and a theistic epistemology provides objective grounding with God providing value/meaning/purpose which is not open to opinion or changing over time.
If an atheist thinks abortion or euthanasia is abhorrent, then they must admit it is their opinion and other have a right to their opinion. Hopefully the "others" opinions don't matter more than yours when it comes to your baby or your grandmother. A theist has no such obligation to recognize someone else's opinion.
I wonder if you feel the same way about political systems which lack a monarchy. Are modern secular governments likewise deficient in value/meaning/purpose?
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 11:23 am
(February 23, 2017 at 11:17 am)Whateverist Wrote: I wonder if you feel the same way about political systems which lack a monarchy. Are modern secular governments likewise deficient in value/meaning/purpose?
I take it you are not referring to Stalinist Russia or Maoist China.
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 11:28 am
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2017 at 11:34 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 23, 2017 at 11:07 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
Perhaps, but what is yours. C'mon step up to the plate.
There's no requirement that I either hold to or express any personal opinion on an intrinsic meaning in order to point out that your comments are idiotic. Even if I -didn't- accept that our lives had intrinsic value or meaning, that wouldn't make any of your statements any less malformed than they were. I'd just be yet another atheist with yet another opinion on shit unrelated to gods...which, again..is everything.
That;s why you need to stop saying shit like that. No counterargument or examples are required, because your claims as such simply cannot -be- true. Your comments on the subject, are less than wrong.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 11:37 am
(February 23, 2017 at 11:23 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (February 23, 2017 at 11:17 am)Whateverist Wrote: I wonder if you feel the same way about political systems which lack a monarchy. Are modern secular governments likewise deficient in value/meaning/purpose?
I take it you are not referring to Stalinist Russia or Maoist China.
Oh I'm sure those regimes very definitely imposed well defined values and instilled many purposes in daily life which were animated by the will to survive .. just as the god of the old testament does for some.
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 12:18 pm
Modern secular democratic republics with features like freedom of the press would be more to the point, I think.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 12:23 pm
(February 23, 2017 at 11:28 am)Khemikal Wrote: (February 23, 2017 at 11:07 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
Perhaps, but what is yours. C'mon step up to the plate.
There's no requirement that I either hold to or express any personal opinion on an intrinsic meaning in order to point out that your comments are idiotic. Even if I -didn't- accept that our lives had intrinsic value or meaning, that wouldn't make any of your statements any less malformed than they were. I'd just be yet another atheist with yet another opinion on shit unrelated to gods...which, again..is everything.
That;s why you need to stop saying shit like that. No counterargument or examples are required, because your claims as such simply cannot -be- true. Your comments on the subject, are less than wrong.
So I'm wrong, but you either can't or won't provide any reason why. Now you're just being a dick about it.
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 12:25 pm
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2017 at 12:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Already did that...I'm just not interested in waving my own opinions on the value or meaning of life around when they're irrelevant. The only reason you're begging for it is to give you something else to bicker over. Denied, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
February 23, 2017 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2017 at 12:32 pm by bennyboy.)
(February 23, 2017 at 11:07 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: That really side-steps the issue, at least with respect to moral nihilism. Having preferences and natural instincts are not the same as having obligations or moral prohibitions. I don't want my daughter raped. I talk to the next five dads I meet. Not surprisingly, they all stand pretty clear on the "no daughter rape" policy. Knowing that this idea is common to the human experience, we will be together able to determine that someone who thinks daughter rape is okay is dysfunctional. Because that's what "evil" is-- something which is seen as so against good function that it is abhorred by almost all of us.
I'm not sure why you think there's a big mystery here. If dogs were smart enough to write on tablets, they'd write, "Thou shalt not steal thy neighbor's bitch nor unearth his bones."
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