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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 4:21 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2017 at 4:32 pm by Aroura.)
Funny, so god knows it at the same time as everyone else.
I'm sorry guys, I keep saying I won't get into this kind of conversation. I know I'm an ass when I do. Please accept my apologies.
Peace.
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 4:41 pm
(May 12, 2017 at 4:21 pm)Aroura Wrote: Funny, so god knows it at the same time as everyone else.
Channelling TJ Kirk for the moment: God has the uncanny ability to see into the present.
Kirk out.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 4:43 pm
(May 12, 2017 at 4:21 pm)Aroura Wrote: Funny, so god knows it at the same time as everyone else.
I'm sorry guys, I keep saying I won't get into this kind of conversation. I know I'm an ass when I do. Please accept my apologies.
Peace.
I don't think you've said anything unreasonable Aroura 
I've probably been the biggest arse on this thread.
It's almost as if I think being right about everything gives me an excuse to be a total arse! 
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 4:44 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2017 at 4:52 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
I think the point is that He's not limited by time, so unlike us He doesn't have to "wait" to see it happen. Kind of like how I said this in the other thread:
(May 10, 2017 at 3:51 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Imagine you see me grabbing a slice of cheese pizza instead of pepperoni. You know I chose cheese because you're seeing me do it, right? That's God as well, seeing us making our choices. Except that's how it is for God at all moments of time. Not just in the present.
That's how I understood it anyway. Though I guess we'll have to wait for Chad to explain, as he could have meant something different.
(edited to add)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 4:45 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2017 at 4:54 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 12, 2017 at 3:46 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: One possible way of looking at it is this. If all of time is fully present to God then God doesn't know now what you will do in the future because he already knows it then. That means he is only aware of the choice you make exactly at the time you make it. It's kind of a mind bender, I know but it has a certain sense about it.
That's called knowledge of the present.
It also means God doesn't know everything.
P.S. It's not relevant anyway because even if he's not aware of what you WILL do yet... the fact you WILL do it means you can't do otherwise.
(May 12, 2017 at 4:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think the point is that He's not limited by time, so unlike us He doesn't have to "wait" to see it happen.
That's how I understood it anyway. Though I guess we'll have to wait for Chad to explain.
Sounds to me like he's completely limited by time if he doesn't know the future now but he only knows it THEN in the future... i.e. when it's no longer the future anymore and when it's the present! Lol!
"because outside of space and time" is akin to saying "because magic"... which doesn't work. You may as well say God can make square circles.
If God knows what you are going to do in a precise moment then you can't do otherwise in that precise moment. In fact, if you are definitely going to do something then you can't not do it regardless of if he knows. The point is your action is already predetermined. Being outside of space and time (which is a logically incoherent concept anyways... you may as well say God can make square circles) has nothing to do with it.
The logical errors made here by both yourself and Neo only further demonstrate why you're not atheists.
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 4:54 pm
I edited the post to further explain what I meant lol.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 4:55 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2017 at 5:18 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 12, 2017 at 4:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think the point is that He's not limited by time, so unlike us He doesn't have to "wait" to see it happen. Kind of like how I said this in the other thread:
Yeah I get it. He doesn't have to wait to see it happen because it's already present to him. Doesn't change the fact that you will do what he determined you to do and you will not do what he did not determine you to do.
It doesn't matter what magical powers God has that allows him to determine your actions. It's the same effect. The way it works doesn't change a thing.
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 4:59 pm
(May 12, 2017 at 4:55 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: (May 12, 2017 at 4:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think the point is that He's not limited by time, so unlike us He doesn't have to "wait" to see it happen. Kind of like how I said this in the other thread:
Yeah I get it. He doesn't have to wait to see it happen because it's already present to him. Doesn't change the fact that you will do what he determined to do and you will not do what he did not determine you to do.
It's not what "He determined I would do." It's what He's literally seeing me do at the moment that I'm doing it.
Listen, it's impossible to wrap our heads around it because we literally don't have the ability to comprehend time not being a factor. All we can do is explain it in words, but it will never truly make sense to us because we exist within time and can't imagine a dimension without it.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:00 pm
(May 10, 2017 at 3:51 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Imagine you see me grabbing a slice of cheese pizza instead of pepperoni. You know I chose cheese because you're seeing me do it, right? That's God as well, seeing us making our choices. Except that's how it is for God at all moments of time. Not just in the present.
Oh I didn't realize you added this part as well lol.
Yeah... same as what I just said. It doesn't matter if God sees all states of time as if it's in the present or not.
It doesn't matter HOW he sees you grab cheese pizza instead of pepperoni pizza... the point is that is that he determined that and so you couldn't have chosen otherwise.
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:01 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2017 at 5:01 pm by Cyberman.)
I can win the lottery every week, by using my superpower of marking off the numbers as they're drawn. Worship me!
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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