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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:01 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2017 at 5:03 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 12, 2017 at 4:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's not what "He determined I would do." It's what He's literally seeing me do at the moment that I'm doing it.
Then he is just watching you and has no more knowledge of it than you do lol.
So does he not know your future actions until they become the present? He doesn't know the future then lol.
Quote:Listen, it's impossible to wrap our heads around it because we literally don't have the ability to comprehend time not being a factor. All we can do is explain it in words, but it will never truly make sense to us because we exist within time and can't imagine a dimension without it.
Either he knows what you will do beforehand or he doesn't.
It's not impossible to wrap our heads around. You may as well be saying he can make square circles and when I explain why that's logically impossible you just say that he has special powers that we don't have and he can make square circles it's just impossible for us to wrap our heads around. That doesn't work. God can't make square circles and for exactly the same reason he can't be outside of space and time either.
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:03 pm
Catholic_Lady Wrote:Alasdair Ham Wrote:Yeah I get it. He doesn't have to wait to see it happen because it's already present to him. Doesn't change the fact that you will do what he determined to do and you will not do what he did not determine you to do.
It's not what "He determined I would do." It's what He's literally seeing me do at the moment that I'm doing it.
Listen, it's impossible to wrap our heads around it because we literally don't have the ability to comprehend time not being a factor. All we can do is explain it in words, but it will never truly make sense to us because we exist within time and can't imagine a dimension without it.
Right, he would only be predetermining what you do if, in addition to knowing what you will do advance, he set the initial conditions that resulted in your choice knowing what the outcome of those conditions would be in advance.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:03 pm
"I fancy a pepperoni pizza."
"I knew you were going to choose that!"
"Actually, make that a surf 'n' turf."
"I knew you'd say that!"
"Oh piss off, God."
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:05 pm
*sigh* nevermind...
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:06 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2017 at 5:10 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 12, 2017 at 5:01 pm)Cyberman Wrote: I can win the lottery every week, by using my superpower of marking off the numbers as they're drawn. Worship me!
WOW YOU MUST BE LIKE OUTSIDE OF SPACE AND TIME! YOU HAVE THE AMAZING POWER TO SEE THE FUTURE WHEN IT BECOMES THE PRESENT!
Can you also make square circles? What about if I donate to the church of Cybermen?
(May 12, 2017 at 5:03 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Catholic_Lady Wrote:It's not what "He determined I would do." It's what He's literally seeing me do at the moment that I'm doing it.
Listen, it's impossible to wrap our heads around it because we literally don't have the ability to comprehend time not being a factor. All we can do is explain it in words, but it will never truly make sense to us because we exist within time and can't imagine a dimension without it.
Right, he would only be predetermining what you do if, in addition to knowing what you will do advance, he set the initial conditions that resulted in your choice knowing what the outcome of those conditions would be in advance.
Well... if he created the universe then he did.
(May 12, 2017 at 5:01 pm)Cyberman Wrote: I can win the lottery every week, by using my superpower of marking off the numbers as they're drawn. Worship me!
Wait... didn't Derren Brown do that once?
* Edwardo Piet does a double take
Derren Brown is God!
Pity he's an atheist and his favourite book is the God delusion.
GOD WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE IN YOURSELF?!
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:12 pm
(May 12, 2017 at 5:06 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: What about if I donate to the church of Cybermen?
Well, we are having a sex appeal this week. Please give generously.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:13 pm
Hmmm.... so is that the Church of Cybermen or the Church of Cybersex?
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:42 pm
(May 12, 2017 at 5:01 pm)Cyberman Wrote: I can win the lottery every week, by using my superpower of marking off the numbers as they're drawn. Worship me!
That is kind of a non-sequitor. The question was about God having all knowledge present to Him simultaneously. One aspect of eternalism that people forget is that everything you choose to do is is in some sense a single act of will fully expressed across time with the difference that you are not simultaneously aware of it in the way God would be. But I sometimes wonder if this is really all that different from presentism. It's a problem that is fraught with paradox. It seems to me that any doctrine about God's foreknowledge is a question that comes afterwards. As such the paradoxes of predestination etc. are just the symptom of a prior dilemma. I don't think you can answer one without first solving the other.
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 5:44 pm
Read what you wrote again, Neo lol.
Dude... Eternalism is bullshit. Saying all times exist at the same time is just saying all times are present.
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RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 12, 2017 at 9:37 pm
(May 12, 2017 at 4:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think the point is that He's not limited by time
That's not logically possible. I'm sorry, but it's just not. Like Alasdair said, you might as well say God can create square triangles or whatever.
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