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March 11, 2017 at 3:24 am (This post was last modified: March 11, 2017 at 3:25 am by Jesster.)
Then that's just one more thing that book is wrong about.
That's not the point I was making, though. I don't care if you believe I was a Christian or not. You seem to have accepted that the bible was a painful thing to me. If that book can be painful to someone, why would you recommend it as a way to help people? Are you actually trying to help people, or are you just in the business of converting them?
(March 10, 2017 at 10:07 am)Godschild Wrote: Yes l have, regardless you were never a Christian.
So you've heard of "No True Scotsman" but you don't understand it.
Yes l understand what it means, it just doesn't apply here.
(March 10, 2017 at 10:07 am)Godschild Wrote: I did not say the Bible would be painful to anyone, you said that it was painful, l said you were never a Christian.
Then you aren't denying that the bible can be painful to someone? Are you accepting that this could lead someone to suicide, like it almost did with me?
[/quote]
Please do not get upset with what l'm saying, it's not my intention.
God uses His word to convict people about their sin and their need for a savior and by grace give people salvation. So yes in that way it can be painful, l find it painful to this day at times because God is convicting me of my sin and short comings. I also find it to be of great value and great joy, it's a spiritual book that holds much in many different ways for anyone that takes it seriously. This spiritual book has a great effect on the physical world because we are physical beings that need the spiritual connection to God whether we want to believe it or not.
I do not believe the Bible was what almost lead you to suicide that is not the purpose of the Bible. What I can believe is that pressure and misguided people in your church were the main reason. I went to church with a guy (we were both teens) that actually tried to commit suicide at the church alter. To this day I do not know why but it would not surprise me if he had come under undo pressure from people within the church. By the way what denomination did you belong to? Believe me I've seen the pressure that can be put on people in a church and sometimes the people doing it do not realize what they're doing. People in the church do not always act like what the Bible says they should, they're to full of self interest to be responsible Christians. Some want to teach the Bible for what they want out of it instead of reading and studying it for the truth of God and when they push this false teaching towards others they can do great harm. I've seen some terrible things happen within the churches I've been a member of things that made me doubt certain people's salvation. You see I think one of the biggest problems in today's Christian Church is those who call themselves Christians but are not. To many churches want the membership to grow and will over look the people who bear no fruit and accept them into the membership. As the Bible teaches this is allowing the wolf into the sheep pen and that always results in conflict and troubles.
With all this said l still do not know your personal situation nor the people involved with you in church so l can't answer your question to any specifics. What I can say is if you had been a member in a church I belonged to l would have tried my best to help you. I wouldn't have fed you a bunch of nonsense I would have sat down with you and searched for the truths you needed. Please read my latest post to Thena323 to see why I believe you were not a Christian. If you want a more private discussion you can e-mail me, not to try and preach just to understand better.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
March 11, 2017 at 3:53 am (This post was last modified: March 11, 2017 at 3:58 am by Jesster.)
(March 11, 2017 at 3:45 am)Godschild Wrote: Yes l understand what it means, it just doesn't apply here.
This is exactly what it is for.
(March 11, 2017 at 3:45 am)Godschild Wrote: With all this said l still do not know your personal situation
And that's why you shouldn't make those assumptions.
(March 11, 2017 at 3:45 am)Godschild Wrote: Please do not get upset with what l'm saying, it's not my intention.
I'm not upset. I'm disappointed. The idea that some people could (and do) commit suicide or otherwise hurt themselves because of your book does not seem to give you any hesitation. It's troublesome how you try to toss your book at people even when they have specifically told you not to, like in the OP here.
(March 11, 2017 at 3:45 am)Godschild Wrote: If you want a more private discussion you can e-mail me, not to try and preach just to understand better.
I would really rather not. I see enough of your posts already.
(March 11, 2017 at 3:45 am)Godschild Wrote: With all this said l still do not know your personal situation
And that's why you shouldn't make those assumptions.
I made no assumption about you not being a Christian, the scriptures teach what I posted to you and Thens323.
(March 11, 2017 at 3:45 am)Godschild Wrote: Please do not get upset with what l'm saying, it's not my intention.
Jesster Wrote:I'm not upset. I'm disappointed. The idea that some people could (and do) commit suicide or otherwise hurt themselves because of your book does not seem to give you any hesitation. It's troublesome how you try to toss your book at people even when they have specifically told you not to, like in the OP here.
I did not say that the Bible could be responsible for people committing suicide as a matter of fact I specifically said it couldn't. I did say people can be painfully convicted of their sin through the Bible but not to the point of suicide. I know the value of the Bible that's why I recommend it and it's certainly not my fault you disagree with it.
(March 11, 2017 at 3:45 am)Godschild Wrote: If you want a more private discussion you can e-mail me, not to try and preach just to understand better.
Jesster Wrote:I would really rather not. I see enough of your posts already.
It was just an offer and in that offer I did say I wouldn't preach at you. I'm really confused as to how someone could blame the Bible because they almost tried suicide. To me to blame a book and only a book just doesn't add up.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(March 11, 2017 at 4:20 am)Godschild Wrote: I'm really confused as to how someone could blame the Bible because they almost tried suicide.
Okay, then you're confused. All I have to offer you is my personal anecdotal story. I don't care if you believe it or even comprehend it. Just try to respect others when they specifically request you to not recommend this kind of book to them while they are trying to get help. You don't know better just because you think you do, and if you have no other way of helping then just let it be. I will make the same request as the OP: I don't want it either. I've already read it anyway and I don't care to do so again.
(March 11, 2017 at 4:20 am)Godschild Wrote: [edit]
It was just an offer and in that offer I did say I wouldn't preach at you. I'm really confused as to how someone could blame the Bible because they almost tried suicide. To me to blame a book and only a book just doesn't add up.
GC
bold mine
I thought you believed that the book contained the word of god. Now it's only a book?
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
Jesus fuck, we had a perfectly good thread about motivational books and helping with depression, and of course GC has to come and shit all over it like a fucking two year-old with his pathetic "read the bible,you were never a Christian, neener-neener" stupidity. Fuck off, asshole. Seriously, anyone that tries to peddle religion to someone looking for mental health help needs to be heartily bitch-slapped like the predator they are.
TEGH, in all my years fighting depression, I only found one book that ever came close to being of any value, but it's been so long since I read it that I can't really remember enough to recommend it. It's "The Miracle of Mindfulness" by Thich Nhat Hanh. He's a Buddhist monk, and I know you said no religious stuff. Mindfulness, however, can actually be a secular concept that doesn't take buying into the woo to be of value, and I believe there's not a whole lot of religious material in the book. Although, like I said, it's been so long that I can't actually remember what I liked about it, but I remember being pretty inspired by it.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
March 11, 2017 at 8:57 pm (This post was last modified: March 11, 2017 at 9:05 pm by Athene.)
(March 11, 2017 at 2:59 am)Godschild Wrote:
(March 10, 2017 at 5:12 pm)Thena323 Wrote:
You can't expect folks to take you seriously when you say ignorant shit like this, GC. You're being childish as hell.
Jesster believed, then she didn't. The same is true of myself. Your being fearful of that potential raising the question of whether it's possible for anyone (including yourself) to lose faith at some point in life, doesn't mean that you have to respond to such an uncomfortable prospect like a scared, silly brat. My gawd. You're so afraid of your bubble bursting, that you've essentially resorted to sticking your fingers in your ears, and saying "Nuh-uh! Nuh-huh! ". It's ridiculous.
You're a grown man,GC. Is that really the best you've got?
If so, you have absolutely no business evangelizing. You're terrible at it.
Sorry, bud.
No need to get bent, I've said the same thing many times and all of a sudden you object. My bubble bursting, l do not live in a bubble l know what's happening all around me. I've been here longer than any other Christian and most of the non-believers and no one has come close to changing my mind not even a thought of changing. The people of my church have always thought l was good at evangelism and frankly their opinions don't matter all that much either, it's all about what God thinks.
The scriptures tell us in more than one place that once we become a Christian nothing nor no one can move us from God. Look at it this way being a Christian means you know God without a doubt, so if you could change your mind about staying a Christian you certainly couldn't deny that God is real. You could say I'm no longer going to serve Him and worship Him, but you can't say He doesn't exist.
You being a non-believer look at Christianity with the belief God isn't real and that Christianity is more of a social club or whatever. Myself I know God is real and I know what is involved in the Christian belief, understand I'm not biblically uneducated, I've studied the scriptures for a long time and dug deep into them. Just going before the church and saying you believe want save you, you will still be as lost as last year's Easter egg if your confession wasn't from the heart. I've seen many people who thought they were Christian spending their whole life in church and active in the work come to realize they were never saved. They had the answers to questions when asked, they went through all the right motions, they went before the church and confessed their belief and for years were empty inside and never asked anyone what was going on. Then one day God the Father actually called them to accept Jesus as their savior, that's when they realized they were lost and need to do something about it. God the Father doesn't call people to Christ at a certain age or certain time, He calls them when He knows they are ready to accept Jesus if they will. To many well intentioned Christians try to talk not just kids but everyone they meet into becoming a Christian, kids feel the pressure and try and please others by making a commitment that they have no idea what's involved, without the Father's call it's all for nothing. Jesus said only the Father can open the heart and call people to Christ, that's a paraphrase. Adults and older teens rebel more than they listen and search, they've already tasted the pleasures of the world (the forbidden fruit so to speak} so fewer come to know Christ at a later age.
With all that said I hope you can see that you and l look at Christianity with different sets of eyes. When I tell someone they were never a Christian who says they are no longer a believer in God l do not mean it as cruel or hurtful it's simply the truth according to the scriptures. Being a Christian means one is a follower of Christ the living God and, if someone claims they were once a Christian and now no longer believes God is real, then they could have never been a follower of the living Christ. It just doesn't work the way that those who called themselves Christians and then jumped ship believes it does. In my opinion they are trying to put on a face that will fit both sides of this issue, they just do not want to look bad for whatever reason.
If you never believe anything else about me just remember this, l do not tell those who have left what they believe was Christianity that they were never a Christian with any sort of malice, that's not me nor is it a proper way for a Christian to act. I actually do it in hopes they might re-examine what they believed to a be Christianity and allow God to once again convict their heart. I guess l've said all that can be said my friend, hope that I did not offend you in what I said.
GC
If you persist in attaching an ever-growing number of lofty assertions to your personal definition of what a Christian is, then you will always win GC; In your own mind, of course.
Congratulations, I suppose.
Though, do keep in mind, that the people you to wish enlighten are well aware of your willingness to engage in such ill-disguised dishonesty. So, when you shift gears and attempt to somehow 'move' non-believers with some random, goofy anecdote or testimony regarding your 'personal experience' with God, don't get bent out of shape if their not willing to take it at face value.
You've already demonstrated an inclination to manipulate the truth quite desperately, when it comes to these matters.
As someone that has dealt with depression since I was about 7 but didn't know what it was until I was older and learned to cope and eventually outgrew it after basically snapping out of it due to learning how to control the mind, I need to say only you are in control of your thoughts. The sooner you understand no one can effect your thoughts besides you, the sooner you will remove depression from your life. Those who live in a dependency mindset who seek approval from others to validate their beliefs about themselves will stay in a depressed state. The key is acknowledging you are an individual sovereign being in control of your life and if you are depressed it's your own fault, and there is no one else to blame. Might seem a bit insensitive, but it's the realization that you can control your thoughts and your life that is the key to success which will raise you out of depression. Once you control your thoughts, you start to control your actions which lead to life experiences and ultimate happiness. Medication will only be a band aid and the key is to work yourself off the medication and work on yourself.
I got to the point of planning my suicide and when that happened, started researching what happened what happens after you die, and eventually found the purpose of life, and GOD. If you believe there really is no purpose to life, then life seems meaningless and easy to get depressed. There is so much more to life than this world, and when you find out the purpose, it will give you purpose. Hang in there. It will take time to learn this.
