How Religion Destroys Families.

[Harry Nevis]

If he was in her womb and she needed to give birth to him, even without "biological components", she is still the mother, surrogate, or not.

Which brings up the question, once again: Why was Mary used in the first place?  Surely god could have created his own Earthly avatar, fully formed, without going through the process of knocking up a man's wife?

Yes, and calling her "woman" and not "mother" or even "Mary", is an indicator of being a spiteful little shit.

*emphasis mine*

The short answer is to fulfill the scripture.

Jesus's purpose was to be the 'goel' for mankind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goel

Goel (the Go’el HaDahm) is a Hebrew term which comes from the word lig'ol ("to redeem"), hence meaning "redeemer", which in the Hebrew Bible and the rabbinical tradition denotes a person who as the nearest relative of another is charged with the duty of restoring the rights of another and avenging his wrongs.

The obligations of the goel include the duty to redeem the relative from slavery, if the latter had been obliged to sell himself into serfdom (Leviticus 25: 48-49); to repurchase the property of a relative who had had to sell it because of poverty; to avenge the blood of his relative; to marry his brother's widow in order to have a son for his brother, in case the brother had not got any son to pass his name forth (Deuteronomy 25:5-6); and to receive the restitution if the injured relative had died (Numbers 5:8).

If Jesus was to redeem all that Adam had lost, then he had to be related to Adam.

If he had no biological connection, how was he related to Adam?

[Minimalist]

No fair using facts against xristards, Harry.  They HATE that.

[ronedee]

And Jesus said we would know his followers by their love. Frankly, most of the Americans who call themselves Christians are just 'team Jesus'. They don't know scriptures very well, and they don't really make much of an effort to emulate the idealized Jesus they profess to follow, they just know what team they're on.

Exactly! 

I might add that the gay community is always looking for support and indoctrination of their lifestyle. You might feel like Christians are doing the same. 
But, its a little different. Actually a lot different. 

I have several kids, and 2 are now gay. The first one to "come out", has been "working" on my youngest who is 12 y/o, to "bring her in". There are several
dynamics here....

I never forced any of my kids to go to church. Even though my wife and I are devout Catholics. When they said they were done, we let them go. We
try to be good examples of Jesus. That's it! I'm sure you will be all glad to know that most of them are now Atheists.

So, here is my problem: I have a house full of teenage & early 20's kids who are as secular as one can be. And, we are sitting back watching them
pretty much go through the strife young people go through.  We are just watching, and praying. And being Jesus like. And hoping they will come around.
Hasn't happened. Much to the opposite.

They mostly despise our lifestyle, even though we push none of it on them. And they are very bitter, and hateful. We give them what they need, and are
pretty much silent, and passive. We love them.

But, I have watched my older gay child "bring in" one of my other kids, and now is "working" on the 12 y/o. I accepted the first child, and the second.... and now I'm a little worried about my "baby". She seems withdrawn and confused, and depressed.

I'm not asking anyone here for advice. I've heard it from all angles. The worst from supposed Christians. What I am telling you is, there are many dynamics involved concerning families, and social issues. Its complicated, and heartbreaking.

Jesus is right. Love is the ONLY answer. But, it needs to be a two way street.

[Huggy Bear]

*emphasis mine*

The short answer is to fulfill the scripture.

Jesus's purpose was to be the 'goel' for mankind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goel


If Jesus was to redeem all that Adam had lost, then he had to be related to Adam.

If he had no biological connection, how was he related to Adam?

Did you not see the part where I stated "Jesus's purpose was to be the 'goel' for mankind", keyword being 'mankind'.


The relation here is to the human species, If God just created himself an "earthly avatar", then he is not human.

---

*emphasis mine*

The short answer is to fulfill the scripture.

Jesus's purpose was to be the 'goel' for mankind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goel


If Jesus was to redeem all that Adam had lost, then he had to be related to Adam.

Fulfill scripture, you say?

Are you aware of  the term retcon?

Which is nonsense.

The Bible was written by 40 different people over a period of 1500 years and didn't get put in it's current form until 367 ad.

What happened to retcon when it comes to bible translations? You do realize the Catholics have their own version of the Bible That has books not contained in the KJV?

Also were the Romans in on this conspiracy since God states that he was to be pierced back in the old testament?

Also where did all this continuity go when it come to christian denominations? how many different ones are there again?

[pocaracas]

If he had no biological connection, how was he related to Adam?

Did you not see the part where I stated "Jesus's purpose was to be the 'goel' for mankind", keyword being 'mankind'.


The relation here is to the human species, If God just created himself an "earthly avatar", then he is not human.

---

Fulfill scripture, you say?

Are you aware of  the term retcon?

Which is nonsense.

The Bible was written by 40 different people over a period of 1500 years and didn't get put in it's current form until 367 ad.

What happened to retcon when it comes to bible translations? You do realize the Catholics have their own version of the Bible That has books not contained in the KJV?

Also were the Romans in on this conspiracy since God states that he was to be pierced back in the old testament?

Also where did all this continuity go when it come to christian denominations? how many different ones are there again?

The retcon is the bit where they mention J.C.'s parents and his unique conception... do all 40 talk about that?

[Rhondazvous]

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

So much for Christian family values.

[Mister Agenda]

Jesus is right. Love is the ONLY answer. But, it needs to be a two way street.

Jesus seemed to be pretty clear on his position that it doesn't need to be a two way street. How does 'love your enemy' give you the impression that he meant love has to be a two way street?

Radical love in the face of hate is powerful, but it's very difficult to practice. It's still what Jesus, whether he was real or just a character, was portrayed as expecting from his followers.

[PETE_ROSE]

Jesus is right. Love is the ONLY answer. But, it needs to be a two way street.

Jesus seemed to be pretty clear on his position that it doesn't need to be a two way street. How does 'love your enemy' give you the impression that he meant love has to be a two way street.

Radical love in the face of hate is powerful, but it's very difficult to practice. It's still what Jesus, whether he was real or just a character, was portrayed as expecting from his followers.

You are fully correct sir. What would have been more accurate would be "life would be better if it was a two way street". Unreciprocated love is difficult to maintain.

[Drich]

Answer = Common sense, I don't need to be lead like sheep, or believe in a fantasy where everything is supposed to be handed to one on a platter, (I'll quote something else relevant to the last statement in a few).

Glob...
You don't understand, too bad your brad of common sense does not include subject comprehension.

In my opening post I highlighted your behavior that parallels the behavior you were trying to point out in your step son... Do you get it now I was showing you how hypocritical you were being, and I then topped off with the question how does you being a hypocrite make you a better person.

Not really a question I was looking for you to answer, because the common sense answers says if you are a hypocrite (as I pointed out) you are not better.

2..........Drich quoted "This all seems a bit one sided to me. "

It would, you're a Christian and know nothing else.

See that's cherry picking sport. That is a hypocrite's way of stacking the conversation to that whole one sided thing I was pointing out.
Again one sided meaning your son was the only aggressor in your little story. And you framed out you an your wife as being only the victims.

The fact that you did the exact same with me just now proves my whole point.

OK, here's the quote taken from what's supposed to be from Psalm 22:-

"The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want." shepherds lead sheep, sheep follow shepherds, if the shepherd were to jump of a cliff, the sheep would follow, and WE are NOT sheep,    "I shall not want", oh dear it looks like that statement says it all, you don't *want* anything because one can just sit and everything is provided, a house is built magically around you, a wife suddenly appears and you're already married, then you magically appear in a job that lasts for years,,,,, if you religious nuts believe in all this fantasy, then you need professional help to return to reality.

"He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters",,,,,,well that just shows how religion is a form of dictatorship, and again, "leadeth me,"meaning to follow like sheep.

As I said previously,,, it's only because of the spoken form of communication that we humans are able to manipulate others into believing what we want others to believe through fear, and not allow them to think for themselves, animals don't know religion, but if animals were to talk, then those religious nuts would coerce them too.

wait.. wait...

:Roflol:

Seriously... ahh


Omg, Omg... Breathe... In.... Ouuuutttt...

Ok..


I think it's all out now..

What was that suppoed to be?

Where did psalm 23 come from?

What does it have to do with you being a hypocrite?

How does it apply to anything I said at all?

Or is this just a "I hate christian thing" you just randomly throw out there as a bar topper? (Sitting in a bar talking about religion, this statement topps all drunk arguments to the contrary!)

Guess what.. We are not in a bar and at least one of us is not drunk... So how do you want me to make you eat this mess?
Do you want a history lesson pointing out that a Jewish song, praising the dynamic of the relationship between one man (David) and God does not reflect everyone's relationship? let alone a whole religion, let alone the Christian experience?? (Meaning it was one Jewish king's poetic display of His relationship with God. Not a command.) How can I say this? because of where the poem was found. in Psalm 23. The psalms were not laws sport. they were a book of songs praise and poems.

So that little bar topper you just threw out there... Imagine I just there a similar critique on the Canadian national anthem If i had a beef with the immigration bann??? You attacked a Jewish song to hate on Christianity...

Are you still with me or has 'common sense left you again?'

Let me break it down:
How stupid would it be for me to attack the national anthem of Canada

If my problem is with a presidential order of the united states?


That is what you are doing here sport.

[ronedee]

Jesus is right. Love is the ONLY answer. But, it needs to be a two way street.

Jesus seemed to be pretty clear on his position that it doesn't need to be a two way street. How does 'love your enemy' give you the impression that he meant love has to be a two way street?

Radical love in the face of hate is powerful, but it's very difficult to practice. It's still what Jesus, whether he was real or just a character, was portrayed as expecting from his followers.

I don't believe you understood my message. 

I didn't say our love was dependent on anyone loving us. It is clear in my statement that I said, "we love them". But, without love from both parties there is no harmony in a relationship. 

Jesus says to, "love thy neighbor as they self." I don't think our "neighbor".... or our "enemy" is exempt from that command?  I believe its to soften the hearts of those who do not love. And to be like our Creator. Who, through His infinite patience and Grace forgives us because of Love!

Jesus also states the greatest commandment: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

I don't see an exclusion for "enemies" in that either.