Turkey referendum

[Pat Mustard]

Erdogan is making the typical strongman argument:  'I need increased powers to protect the State'.  I imagine he'll get them - I'm not all that sanguine about the validity of 'voting' in Turkey.

Boru

He will, he rigged the vote. About half the votes in the cities weren't counted. And unstamped ballots handed in by his AKP were counted, despite the lack of verification that there was a voter behind them.

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This is just another example of muslims voluntarily voting in an authoritarian.  The failure of Arab spring was quite predictable but it is especially troubling that it has occurred in Turkey where Ataturk had taken extraordinary steps to try and keep Turkey secular. Erdogan is more than likely just in it to keep himself in power by using the islamic mindset to grant himself complete authority, but he won't live forever. The system he is putting in place will morph into full blown Islamism IMO and Ataturk's vision for Turkey is dead.

It appears to me that the mindset that Islam creates is one where there is a strong desire for an authoritarian to tell everyone exactly how to live and what to do. This is the pattern that Mohamed established and this, among other undying memes in islam makes it the most dangerous of all the religions.

The referendum vote was about as free and fair as the 2016 US presidential election. I wouldn't be surprised that when the dust settles the No vote had a majority as large or larger than Hillary Clinton's.

[Crunchy]

The referendum vote was about as free and fair as the 2016 US presidential election. I wouldn't be surprised that when the dust settles the No vote had a majority as large or larger than Hillary Clinton's.

It's not like it's the first time that authoritarians have been voted into power in Muslim nations. There is plenty of precedent. And if it was fixed, why make it so close? Not to say that Erdogan is above fixing the vote though. 

Sorry, but this is just wishful thinking as it should never have even been a close vote in the first place.  It's a nice dream to believe that the good people of Turkey have been subverted by a bad guy when all they want is democracy. The painful truth is that the people themselves are quite often the bad guys, especially when their minds have been subverted by religious ideology that tells them a powerful dictator is the best form of government.

[Isis]