Can someone tell me where in the 2nd amendment it says you can carry machine guns?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've been convinced of that for some time now.

Being a smartass?

If that's how you want people to view you, go for it.

[Brian37]

I've been convinced of that for some time now.

Being a smartass?

KUSA we are being deadly serious. Your paranoid kneejerk reaction to criticism is the problem. You have been so deeply indoctrinated, like a child of ANY conservative religion, that when someone tells you there is a problem with your attitude you stupidly take it as an "all or nothing" argument on our part, which it is NOT.

You are acting the same about guns as a right wing Muslim does when you criticize the Koran.

NOBODY on the left, that I would consider pragmatic or sane wants to ban every single firearm. Just like while I criticize ALL religions, I am not calling for an all out ban on religion. 

Your utopia attitude about pretend scenarios of what you would do "IF" "this or that" happens "I'd do this", only addresses your intent of what you think or would want to happen. In real life, what you want or think might happen is not the real life outcomes. If you go into gun ownership thinking all it takes to not hurt yourself is "I have no record" you are fooling yourself and the person you are most likely to affect because of that attitude IS YOU.

Mere target shooting is what most non police and non military get as far as training. In real life that is NOT enough to have the ability to remain calm while using a firearm. If you are not willing to take that into consideration, you are a danger to yourself and those you live with and are far more likely to make that one mistake.

WE are NOT one bit calling for a ban on every single firearm. We are addressing your flawed perception. It only takes one mistake with a gun. You have not demonstrated in this thread that you take guns seriously. "I have the right" is not the argument we are making.

Your utopia thinking will get you hurt. Your lack of pragmatism will get you hurt.

[downbeatplumb]

The problem with the 2nd amendment is it's not very specific.

The amendment says that Americans have a right to "keep and bear arms" and that's about it. "arms" can cover almost any weapon imaginable.

The phrase "well related militia" is also not well defined either, especially in the context of the amendment. Its used as a reason for why the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed, but it doesn't state that all people who keep and bear arms need to belong to a well regulated militia either.

In short, it wasn't specific enough when it was written, and although I agree with the sentiment expressed in the amendment, it needs some more definition from court rulings.

The founders wrote laws REGULATING the size of muskets and musket balls. Funny how nobody on the far right gun worshiping sides ever shouts "SAWED OFF SHOTGUNS SHOULD BE LEGAL". 

It is utter nonsense that the founders intended for a free for all. No other product sold in America gets the level of immunity guns do and it is frightening. What NRA nutters are arguing would be like using rotary phone laws to regulate cell phones.

It has had court rulings, that is what the Supreme Court has done since on every subject. Unfortunately for the past 36 years the Supreme Court has sided with mostly big business, including gun companies. 

The last time the GOP cared about gun safety Reagan got shot and Brady did too. I certainly hope it doesn't take some nut hitting a high profile republican's family for society to wake up.

There are more restrictions on BB guns than on actual guns.

[KUSA]

Being a smartass?

KUSA we are being deadly serious. Your paranoid kneejerk reaction to criticism is the problem. You have been so deeply indoctrinated, like a child of ANY conservative religion, that when someone tells you there is a problem with your attitude you stupidly take it as an "all or nothing" argument on our part, which it is NOT.

You are acting the same about guns as a right wing Muslim does when you criticize the Koran.

NOBODY on the left, that I would consider pragmatic or sane wants to ban every single firearm. Just like while I criticize ALL religions, I am not calling for an all out ban on religion. 

Your utopia attitude about pretend scenarios of what you would do "IF" "this or that" happens "I'd do this", only addresses your intent of what you think or would want to happen. In real life, what you want or think might happen is not the real life outcomes. If you go into gun ownership thinking all it takes to not hurt yourself is "I have no record" you are fooling yourself and the person you are most likely to affect because of that attitude IS YOU.

Mere target shooting is what most non police and non military get as far as training. In real life that is NOT enough to have the ability to remain calm while using a firearm. If you are not willing to take that into consideration, you are a danger to yourself and those you live with and are far more likely to make that one mistake.

WE are NOT one bit calling for a ban on every single firearm. We are addressing your flawed perception. It only takes one mistake with a gun. You have not demonstrated in this thread that you take guns seriously. "I have the right" is not the argument we are making.

Your utopia thinking will get you hurt. Your lack of pragmatism will get you hurt.

Set me straight then. What should I do? What steps should I take to be the responsible gun owner you would have me be?

[Brian37]

The founders wrote laws REGULATING the size of muskets and musket balls. Funny how nobody on the far right gun worshiping sides ever shouts "SAWED OFF SHOTGUNS SHOULD BE LEGAL". 

It is utter nonsense that the founders intended for a free for all. No other product sold in America gets the level of immunity guns do and it is frightening. What NRA nutters are arguing would be like using rotary phone laws to regulate cell phones.

It has had court rulings, that is what the Supreme Court has done since on every subject. Unfortunately for the past 36 years the Supreme Court has sided with mostly big business, including gun companies. 

The last time the GOP cared about gun safety Reagan got shot and Brady did too. I certainly hope it doesn't take some nut hitting a high profile republican's family for society to wake up.

There are more restrictions on BB guns than on actual guns.

And that says a lot right there. BTW, the word is either "law" or "regulation". "Restriction" is a bullshit word the gun worshipers freak out over. 

Of course there should be regulations on BB guns, but if that is the case there should be effective regulations on firearms which are far more deadly than BB guns.

---

KUSA we are being deadly serious. Your paranoid kneejerk reaction to criticism is the problem. You have been so deeply indoctrinated, like a child of ANY conservative religion, that when someone tells you there is a problem with your attitude you stupidly take it as an "all or nothing" argument on our part, which it is NOT.

You are acting the same about guns as a right wing Muslim does when you criticize the Koran.

NOBODY on the left, that I would consider pragmatic or sane wants to ban every single firearm. Just like while I criticize ALL religions, I am not calling for an all out ban on religion. 

Your utopia attitude about pretend scenarios of what you would do "IF" "this or that" happens "I'd do this", only addresses your intent of what you think or would want to happen. In real life, what you want or think might happen is not the real life outcomes. If you go into gun ownership thinking all it takes to not hurt yourself is "I have no record" you are fooling yourself and the person you are most likely to affect because of that attitude IS YOU.

Mere target shooting is what most non police and non military get as far as training. In real life that is NOT enough to have the ability to remain calm while using a firearm. If you are not willing to take that into consideration, you are a danger to yourself and those you live with and are far more likely to make that one mistake.

WE are NOT one bit calling for a ban on every single firearm. We are addressing your flawed perception. It only takes one mistake with a gun. You have not demonstrated in this thread that you take guns seriously. "I have the right" is not the argument we are making.

Your utopia thinking will get you hurt. Your lack of pragmatism will get you hurt.

Set me straight then. What should I do? What steps should I take to be the responsible gun owner you would have me be?

1. Loose your "Nothing will ever go wrong" utopia attitude first off.
2. Understand the difference between a want and a need.
3. Understand the difference between target shooting, and firing under extreme stress.
4. Conflict is not a default position, thinking about surviving is the main goal, using your brain and training, not simply shooting.
5. STOP THINKING liberals want to ban all firearms. That is flat out bullshit.

[KUSA]

1. Loose your "Nothing will ever go wrong" utopia attitude first off.

I don't think that nothing could ever go wrong.

2. Understand the difference between a want and a need.

I do.

3. Understand the difference between target shooting, and firing under extreme stress.

I do.

4. Conflict is not a default position, thinking about surviving is the main goal, using your brain and training, not simply shooting.

I have stated many times that conflict is something that I avoid if possible. In all the years I've been carrying a gun I have never pulled it out when faced with conflict. I avoid bad situations. I don't want trouble.

5. STOP THINKING liberals want to ban all firearms. That is flat out bullshit.

But.

[Jeanne]

It all comes down to premeditation, as to whether a killing is murder or not. Does someone carry a firearm with the expectation that they may use it?

If you go for a walk down the road and know there are dogs that might chase you and you carry a big stick...do you carry it with the expectation that you may use it?

If I thought that I would never have to use my sidearm, I would not wear it.  But...then I would not have been able to kill my attackers.  And, neither would I have felt safe in those few instances when strangers that made me feel creepy were on my property.

I have never had an accident, but I wear my seatbelt every single time.

I bet that criminals intend to use their guns when they venture out with them.  It is for courts to decide it they intended to murder or committed man-slaughter instead.

When I use my gun to commit murder, then I am a criminal.  Until then I am a law-abiding citizen just like you....or I assume that you are one, too.

-Jeanne

[Cyberman]

A seatbelt is designed for restraint, not injury or death. A gun is designed for nothing else. Were I to carry a stick for the purpose of inflicting injury, it would be deemed a weapon; and the legality of wielding it would depend solely on its use. If I were to go further than mere self-defence and actually took a life, dog or otherwise, I am now the bad guy.

Ex-gangster-turned-author and celebrity pundit Dave Courtney said that carrying a firearm has the potential of turning an ordinary day into at least one funeral and life improsonment. I have never been mugged or assaulted, nor anything remotely similar, despite more than forty years of traipsing some of the less savoury locales our sceptred isle has to offer. Yes I've been involved in the odd scrap or three in my time, which left nobody dead. Even in the thick of the action, I don't think it could be said with any integrity that anyone involved warranted a summary death sentence.

If the laws over here were changed tomorow, making us on a par with those of the US, I would still not carry a weapon. Law-abiding citizen or not.

[The Grand Nudger]

Strange...I've put thousands of rounds downrange without managing to kill anything.  Maybe my rifle's defective?  

Most US citizens (and most gun owners) don't carry a weapon either, which is good...since it's almost always illegal.  You will also find that most folks in the US are against people "carrying weapons", for even stricter laws, and  for stricter enforcement.  I guess it might seem, from the outside, like this is a difference between you and us, or there and here...but it probably isn't.

We have guns, yes. More guns. Lots of guns. That much is night and day. How we feel about them, though, what we deem their proper (and improper) place - not so much. We get into fights, largely without shooting each other - and if someone is seen walking down the street with a pistol, the cops hear about it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The founders wrote laws REGULATING the size of muskets and musket balls. Funny how nobody on the far right gun worshiping sides ever shouts "SAWED OFF SHOTGUNS SHOULD BE LEGAL". 

It is utter nonsense that the founders intended for a free for all. No other product sold in America gets the level of immunity guns do and it is frightening. What NRA nutters are arguing would be like using rotary phone laws to regulate cell phones.

It has had court rulings, that is what the Supreme Court has done since on every subject. Unfortunately for the past 36 years the Supreme Court has sided with mostly big business, including gun companies. 

The last time the GOP cared about gun safety Reagan got shot and Brady did too. I certainly hope it doesn't take some nut hitting a high profile republican's family for society to wake up.

There are more restrictions on BB guns than on actual guns.

And so many people don't see a problem with that.

---

It all comes down to premeditation, as to whether a killing is murder or not. Does someone carry a firearm with the expectation that they may use it?

If you go for a walk down the road and know there are dogs that might chase you and you carry a big stick...do you carry it with the expectation that you may use it?

If I thought that I would never have to use my sidearm, I would not wear it.  But...then I would not have been able to kill my attackers.  And, neither would I have felt safe in those few instances when strangers that made me feel creepy were on my property.

I have never had an accident, but I wear my seatbelt every single time.

I bet that criminals intend to use their guns when they venture out with them.  It is for courts to decide it they intended to murder or committed man-slaughter instead.

When I use my gun to commit murder, then I am a criminal.  Until then I am a law-abiding citizen just like you....or I assume that you are one, too.

-Jeanne

Do you wear your gun to Wal-mart?

---

KUSA we are being deadly serious. Your paranoid kneejerk reaction to criticism is the problem. You have been so deeply indoctrinated, like a child of ANY conservative religion, that when someone tells you there is a problem with your attitude you stupidly take it as an "all or nothing" argument on our part, which it is NOT.

You are acting the same about guns as a right wing Muslim does when you criticize the Koran.

NOBODY on the left, that I would consider pragmatic or sane wants to ban every single firearm. Just like while I criticize ALL religions, I am not calling for an all out ban on religion. 

Your utopia attitude about pretend scenarios of what you would do "IF" "this or that" happens "I'd do this", only addresses your intent of what you think or would want to happen. In real life, what you want or think might happen is not the real life outcomes. If you go into gun ownership thinking all it takes to not hurt yourself is "I have no record" you are fooling yourself and the person you are most likely to affect because of that attitude IS YOU.

Mere target shooting is what most non police and non military get as far as training. In real life that is NOT enough to have the ability to remain calm while using a firearm. If you are not willing to take that into consideration, you are a danger to yourself and those you live with and are far more likely to make that one mistake.

WE are NOT one bit calling for a ban on every single firearm. We are addressing your flawed perception. It only takes one mistake with a gun. You have not demonstrated in this thread that you take guns seriously. "I have the right" is not the argument we are making.

Your utopia thinking will get you hurt. Your lack of pragmatism will get you hurt.

Set me straight then. What should I do? What steps should I take to be the responsible gun owner you would have me be?

Don't put other people in danger. You're far more likely to shoot someone who doesn't need it than to kill a bad guy. 

My guns were locked in safes when I had them at home. Now they're locked in safes at a local range. When I was  a young man I was taught how to take care of myself without a gun before I was allowed to fire a gun. Eventually I taught young men how to take care of themselves with and without guns.