Posts: 15351
Threads: 118
Joined: January 13, 2014
Reputation:
117
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 1:20 pm
(This post was last modified: May 4, 2017 at 1:22 pm by SteelCurtain.)
(May 4, 2017 at 12:03 pm)Isis Wrote: (May 4, 2017 at 11:43 am)Grandizer Wrote: The 500 was just a number I threw in there without thinking too hard about it. You can lower the amount in your analyses as you see fit.
Again, how would you fund something like this?
My first thought would be tax penalties for companies that don't pay living wages, they need to subsidize the wages of their workers. (which will have the dual effect of companies either choosing to raise their employee's wages in order to pay the person rather than the government, or offsetting the cost itself.)
My second thought would be that when this problem gets deep enough and the effects ripple through (unemployment going up has an effect on crime and tax revenue) that it will actually cost less in the long run to pay people a UBI, seeing as you'll get a portion of that money back in taxes, whereas police spending and welfare programs are pure expenditures.
(May 4, 2017 at 12:41 pm)mlmooney89 Wrote: I disagree with this completely. I'm not against helping those that need it temporarily but this whole living your entire life on money given to you from the government just because is not acceptable.
And I know $500 was just a random number but geez how much are you making to think that would be okay to just give away? Until January I wasn't making $500 a week and was making decent enough money to live on. Now I make just over that and with four weeks of that I'm throwing money at my loans like it's nothing. I might as well quit my job and just live off the government for $2k a month doing nothing.
I agree that right now, this isn't necessary.
My argument for it is in the future when automation, modularization, and tech replacement affects major employment areas like the service industry, logistics, and continued losses in the manufacturing industry when we are going to have massive, widespread unemployment. When you can't be a waiter at Olive Garden or a cashier at WalMart anymore, what are we, as a society, going to do?
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
Posts: 6610
Threads: 73
Joined: May 31, 2014
Reputation:
56
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 1:23 pm
(May 4, 2017 at 12:41 pm)mlmooney89 Wrote: I disagree with this completely. I'm not against helping those that need it temporarily but this whole living your entire life on money given to you from the government just because is not acceptable.
And I know $500 was just a random number but geez how much are you making to think that would be okay to just give away? Until January I wasn't making $500 a week and was making decent enough money to live on. Now I make just over that and with four weeks of that I'm throwing money at my loans like it's nothing. I might as well quit my job and just live off the government for $2k a month doing nothing.
But why quit unless you don't really enjoy your job?
Posts: 15351
Threads: 118
Joined: January 13, 2014
Reputation:
117
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 1:34 pm
(May 4, 2017 at 1:23 pm)Grandizer Wrote: But why quit unless you don't really enjoy your job?
Also, with massive unemployment, people quitting and living on the government's teat is sort of the point. Jobs will be scarce. They will not go unfilled.
If you keep the UBI at the poverty line, you'll not only have to raise wages to attract workers, but you'll open up the jobs market for those that want to work.
The economic snowball is the issue here, would a massive economic change like this have unintended consequences with inflation and cost of living? Probably. But my guess is that it would be bad enough the way it's going that people would take a swing for the fences.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 2:02 pm
(May 4, 2017 at 11:43 am)Grandizer Wrote: The 500 was just a number I threw in there without thinking too hard about it. You can lower the amount in your analyses as you see fit.
$2,000 / month in the larger cities would get you a closet to live in.... and maybe you could eat cheap cat food with what is left.
Posts: 28432
Threads: 525
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm
Devils advocate: I get to apply for jobs outside my abilities, never accept one and get paid. I have to take a job that I don't like, quit/get fired, and get paid. I get to blow the money on vice and the government still has to take care of me (sorry, ponies took it, now feed, house and cloth me). I own a business and you tax me because the business can't pay 5 employees the set wage and I will be taxed, solution, go out of business and get 6 people paid.
And what of the cost to administer this program? Knowing the government, it will be 50 cents on the dollar.
Society supports me but I don't need to support society. Very slippery slope.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Posts: 3879
Threads: 21
Joined: June 6, 2016
Reputation:
39
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm
I live in Austin Texas which I know is just shy of the ten biggest cities in America by being number 11 but I also know that living in the bigger ones would be even worse. That being said I used to have a two bedroom with garage duplex for $485 a month including water. Now I live in Austin and have a one bedroom apartment for over a grand. Albeit they do considerate 'Luxury' but I think that is a joke.
“What screws us up the most in life is the picture in our head of what it's supposed to be.”
Also if your signature makes my scrolling mess up "you're tacky and I hate you."
Posts: 9176
Threads: 76
Joined: November 21, 2013
Reputation:
40
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm
It might be nice if people who make below a certain amount a year didn't have to pay taxes. There's your extra money a month.
Posts: 28432
Threads: 525
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 2:16 pm
(May 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It might be nice if people who make below a certain amount a year didn't have to pay taxes. There's your extra money a month.
Is this a joke?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Posts: 30129
Threads: 304
Joined: April 18, 2014
Reputation:
92
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 2:21 pm
LOL, income below a certain amount nets you no taxes AND a refund !!!
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: Universal Basic Income
May 4, 2017 at 2:30 pm
(May 4, 2017 at 2:16 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: (May 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It might be nice if people who make below a certain amount a year didn't have to pay taxes. There's your extra money a month.
Is this a joke?
There are other taxes aside from income taxes, you know.
|
