Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 22, 2024, 6:43 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Universal Basic Income
#31
RE: Universal Basic Income
(May 4, 2017 at 2:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
(May 4, 2017 at 2:16 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Is this a joke?

There are other taxes aside from income taxes, you know.

OK, what taxes would apply/not apply and how would administer that?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
Reply
#32
RE: Universal Basic Income
(May 4, 2017 at 12:37 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Like I said in the original post, don't have a confident position on this. But increasing the tax, and adjusting government spendings, will help. I think the obstacle is more to do with whether or not enough people in power will agree to go through with the plan. And the psychological/financial consequences of such a plan being implemented.

I suppose you could raise taxes but you would have to raise them a lot to fund something like this, also you would risk driving away wealthy individuals and by extension jobs, so that probably isn't the best idea. I agree that government spending could be adjusted in general, but not for this.

The current unemployment benefits and other forms of social assistance (disability, etc) should be improved, not replaced with a universal income. Schemes like this might work in certain states or cities, but it would cost an absolute fortune to implement country-wide.
Reply
#33
RE: Universal Basic Income
(May 4, 2017 at 2:16 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:
(May 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It might be nice if people who make below a certain amount a year didn't have to pay taxes. There's your extra money a month.

Is this a joke?

No. Not that I know much about taxes. It might actually be a stupid idea, but I don't see much point in taking money from people who don't have much to start with. Go where most of the money is for taxes, which is the rich people.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

Reply
#34
RE: Universal Basic Income
(May 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Devils advocate: I get to apply for jobs outside my abilities, never accept one and get paid. I have to take a job that I don't like, quit/get fired, and get paid. I get to blow the money on vice and the government still has to take care of me (sorry, ponies took it, now feed, house and cloth me). I own a business and you tax me because the business can't pay 5 employees the set wage and I will be taxed, solution, go out of business and get 6 people paid. 

And what of the cost to administer this program? Knowing the government, it will be 50 cents on the dollar. 

Society supports me but I don't need to support society. Very slippery slope.

I think it's worthwhile to restate that I don't think many people think that it should be instituted right now.

But if a massive job deficit occurs where service industry jobs take a massive dive due to automation and technology replacement, and there is a spike in unemployment, how will your small business survive anyhow? And how much will it cost in police spending/welfare/prison management?

Yes, of course there will be takers who will be happy to take---that's true of any entitlement system. I think the slippery slope argument has been debunked many times, though. I also think you underestimate the drive of most people to do better than the minimum. I know I wouldn't just be happy to sit at the poverty line.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
Reply
#35
RE: Universal Basic Income
Sounds like what is really meant is a Basic Minimum Income (BMI, everyone gets at least the minimum, anyone less than that is raised up to it), not a Universal Basic Income (all citizens get a certain amount of money).

A BMI of $12,000 a year is comparable to current US welfare spending, not counting SSI. That's about $230 a week. Even that's a little bit of a disincentive to work, but if it went down gradually instead of all at once, that disincentive would be greatly decreased. For instance, a person with no income would get $12,000; a person who only had a part time job that paid $8,000 wouldn't just get $4,000 to bring them up to $12,000; but maybe $8,000 to bring them up to $16,000. Someone who made $12,000 might get $6,000 to bring them up to $18,000. Someone making $16,000 might get an additional $4,000 to bring them up to $20,000. And it might top out with an adult making $24,000 getting no extra assistance; and they probably wouldn't care to lose half their income to go on the dole.

There have been a few experiments that indicate most reduced working as a result of these kinds of benefits takes the form of quitting that third job or staying in school longer before quitting to get a job, or going on the dole temporarily to finish college. It might also push up wages for low-end jobs to improve retention when a basic income is available.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Reply
#36
RE: Universal Basic Income
(May 4, 2017 at 3:02 pm)Chad32 Wrote: No. Not that I know much about taxes. It might actually be a stupid idea, but I don't see much point in taking money from people who don't have much to start with. Go where most of the money is for taxes, which is the rich people.

We do this already, in the form of standard deductions and personal exemptions. Lower income people with earned income are also entitled to collect the Earned Income Tax Credit, which can be substantial. There's also the Child Tax Credit, which phases out for higher incomes.

Something like 40% of Americans pay no federal income taxes, or receive a subsidy in the form of the above credits.
Reply
#37
RE: Universal Basic Income
Ok cool. Good that we're doing something right around here.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

Reply
#38
RE: Universal Basic Income
(May 4, 2017 at 3:20 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Ok cool. Good that we're doing something right around here.

For now, at least.
Reply
#39
RE: Universal Basic Income
(May 4, 2017 at 2:32 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:
(May 4, 2017 at 2:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote: There are other taxes aside from income taxes, you know.

OK, what taxes would apply/not apply and how would administer that?

Regressive taxes.... the kind republicunts love because they hit the poor hardest.   Sales taxes, gas taxes, social security taxes, medicare taxes, and then don't forget all the little state and local levies that they love to pile on....while they are cutting income taxes on their rich scumbag pals.
Reply
#40
RE: Universal Basic Income
(May 4, 2017 at 3:11 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:
(May 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Devils advocate: I get to apply for jobs outside my abilities, never accept one and get paid. I have to take a job that I don't like, quit/get fired, and get paid. I get to blow the money on vice and the government still has to take care of me (sorry, ponies took it, now feed, house and cloth me). I own a business and you tax me because the business can't pay 5 employees the set wage and I will be taxed, solution, go out of business and get 6 people paid. 

And what of the cost to administer this program? Knowing the government, it will be 50 cents on the dollar. 

Society supports me but I don't need to support society. Very slippery slope.

I think it's worthwhile to restate that I don't think many people think that it should be instituted right now.

But if a massive job deficit occurs where service industry jobs take a massive dive due to automation and technology replacement, and there is a spike in unemployment, how will your small business survive anyhow? And how much will it cost in police spending/welfare/prison management?

Yes, of course there will be takers who will be happy to take---that's true of any entitlement system. I think the slippery slope argument has been debunked many times, though. I also think you underestimate the drive of most people to do better than the minimum. I know I wouldn't just be happy to sit at the poverty line.

Small business will fill the niche that tech can't do, there will always be jobs that machines can't do. 

Maybe I under estimate, but not as much as you think.

(May 4, 2017 at 4:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
(May 4, 2017 at 2:32 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: OK, what taxes would apply/not apply and how would administer that?

Regressive taxes.... the kind republicunts love because they hit the poor hardest.   Sales taxes, gas taxes, social security taxes, medicare taxes, and then don't forget all the little state and local levies that they love to pile on....while they are cutting income taxes on their rich scumbag pals.

And how do you propose the application?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Disability and Universal Healthcare BrokenQuill92 49 4405 January 3, 2020 at 1:53 am
Last Post: BrokenQuill92
  Universal basic income in the future Aegon 63 13215 September 24, 2019 at 1:29 pm
Last Post: Aegon
  After leading ACA repeal in the House, Trump praises Australia's universal healthcare Aegon 26 5965 May 6, 2017 at 1:36 pm
Last Post: GrandizerII
  Income Inequality and Left Wing Hypocricy Neo-Scholastic 17 3880 September 28, 2016 at 4:02 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Humans need not apply - the case for the universal basic income Heywood 23 7921 January 22, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Bill Gate's Solution to Income Inequality Heywood 44 8813 November 15, 2014 at 3:49 pm
Last Post: Ryantology
  Janet Yellin Mentions Income Inequality.... Minimalist 0 983 October 30, 2014 at 3:05 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Facebook pays NO income taxes Baalzebutt 15 6524 February 22, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Last Post: Mystical
  Top 1% Captured 93% Of Income Gains In 2010 reverendjeremiah 4 1920 March 6, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Mitt Romney income calculator Doubting Thomas 46 23162 January 29, 2012 at 4:17 pm
Last Post: Perhaps



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)