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"Cultural Appropriation"
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
Yeah, I don't see any point trying to debate him. Everyone who disagrees is an idiot who isn't reading enough, and it's not a debate because it's not up to his standards.

I never really took him for a frothing SJW, but I guess that's where it's at.

The second anyone starts defending their side to the point of ignoring the facts, I'm out. It's no better than trying to debate with beta or that weird Christian Republican who's constantly all fired up. (I can't think of his name. Middle-aged, raving lunatic?)

"According to critics of the practice . . ." Further down, it delves into how actual fucking scholars define it. Cherry-picking all day long. Now I'm actually leaving this conversation, promise. Have fun, dudes.
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
You could at least have done the subject the courtesy of reading the first full paragraph of the wiki, don't you think? Yes, further down it does do that. Would you like to link some of that? Discuss some of that? Are we not..in this thread..directly discussing what those critics say, in any case? Aren't those the SJW's everyone is sure are fascist leftys full of shit?

I'm trying to stay on subject,.,.but end up being buried under a mountain of "but I didn't appropriate nobody!".

Crazy.....pills.....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
I like the warm fuzzy atmosphere on this forum, even when there's a disagreement going on.

Yeh so what you just posted shows that there's critics who frame cultural apropriation as being misappropriation. And it goes on to talk about collective intellectual property of cultures.

I disagree with the whole premise of intellectual property as owned by specific cultures. So that's why the premise of how critics are framing cultural apropriation means nothing to me.

I don't believe all white people or all black people have intellectual property rights over inventions within their cultures.

I also don't care about using elements of a culture in ways that the members of that culture didn't intend.
In fact I think it's a very good thing. Having the freedom to use Christian religious figures in comedies and so on is an important excersise in freedom.
I wish it was more like that in Islamic society.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 3:44 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I like the warm fuzzy atmosphere on this forum, even when there's a disagreement going on.

Yeh so what you just posted shows that there's critics who frame cultural apropriation as being misappropriation. And it goes on to talk about collective intellectual property of cultures.
No...it shows that those critics say that there is a certain set of activities..distinct from those others related - distinct from acculturation, acclimatization, or exchange, that they refer to as cultural appropriation or misappropriation.

This is an open question, to anyone.  Is there someone here who denies that the subset to which they are referring happened?  

Quote:I disagree with the whole premise of intellectual property as owned by specific cultures so that's why the premise of how critics are framing cultural apropriation means nothing to me.
Yes, but we already knew that you were suferring from racial apathy, so....?  I get that you don't care,  Some do.   

Quote:I don't believe all white people or all black people have intellectual property rights over inventions within their cultures.
Okay then...does that change anything about those instances that those critics are referring to..distinct from acculturation, acclimatization, or exchange?  Does it mean that they didn't happen?  Does it mean that they weren't a bad thing...for those people.  

Another open question. Is there anyone here who denies that the activities described by that subset were decidedly negative, with a decidedly negative effect on those people, those cultures?

Quote:I also don't care about using elements of a culture in ways that the members of that culture didn't intend.
In fact I think it's a very good thing. Having the freedom to use Christian religious figures in comedies and so on is an important excersise in freedom.
Are you in some sort of colonial relationship with a christian minority? Satire is hardly what those critics are referring to, when they discuss cultural appropriation.

How hard is it to say, to simply acknowledge. "So, yeah, we may have ripped off your culture even as we oppressed you...and maybe we made some changes that didn't exactly sit right with you, particularly in light of that whole exploitation thing." That -is- what happened. What is the problem with that? Why is it a frothing sjw thing to come down against that, in the past, present, or future?

We, as in a country. We, as in a culture. We, as in people with a history. Not we...as in "Me and my room-mate".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 3:49 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
(June 27, 2017 at 3:44 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I like the warm fuzzy atmosphere on this forum, even when there's a disagreement going on.

Yeh so what you just posted shows that there's critics who frame cultural apropriation as being misappropriation. And it goes on to talk about collective intellectual property of cultures.
No...it shows that those critics say that there is a certain set of activities..distinct from those others related - distinct from acculturation, acclimatization, or exchange, that they refer to as cultural appropriation or misappropriation.

This is an open question, to anyone.  Is there someone here who denies that the subset to which they are referring happened?  

Quote:I disagree with the whole premise of intellectual property as owned by specific cultures so that's why the premise of how critics are framing cultural apropriation means nothing to me.
Yes, but we already knew that you were suferring from racial apathy, so....?  I get that you don't care,  Some do.   

Quote:I don't believe all white people or all black people have intellectual property rights over inventions within their cultures.
Okay then...does that change anything about those instances that those critics are referring to..distinct from acculturation, acclimatization, or exchange?  Does it mean that they didn't happen?  Does it mean that they weren't a bad thing...for those people.  

Another open question. Is there anyone here who denies that the activities described by that subset were decidedly negative, with a decidedly negative effect on those people, those cultures?

Quote:I also don't care about using elements of a culture in ways that the members of that culture didn't intend.
In fact I think it's a very good thing. Having the freedom to use Christian religious figures in comedies and so on is an important excersise in freedom.
Are you in some sort of colonial relationship with a christian minority? Satire is hardly what those critics are referring to, when they discuss cultural appropriation.

How hard is it to say, to simply acknowledge. "So, yeah, we may have ripped off your culture even as we oppressed you...and maybe we made some changes that didn't exactly sit right with you, particularly in light of that whole exploitation thing." That -is- what happened. What is the problem with that? Why is it a frothing sjw thing to come down against that, in the past, present, or future?

We, as in a country. We, as in a culture. We, as in people with a history. Not we...as in "Me and my room-mate".

A lot to reply to there. But as a quick response. I'm not from your country, its likely that there's cultural similarities between me and you but I wouldn't say there's a thing known as our culture.
And I forgot that the appropriated culture has to be in the minority and have had a colonial relationship with the apropriator.
(Translation - only white people can do it)
But still stand by what I said, I think if Christian rituals and emblems can be used in an untraditional sense then it has to be equal among all religions and cultural rituals.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 4:04 pm)paulpablo Wrote: A lot to reply to there. But as a quick response. I'm not from your country, its likely that there's cultural similarities between me and you but I wouldn't say there's a thing known as our culture.
Then you would not be on the hook for those things..noit even as an artifact of culture.  Right?  Why, then, spend so much time arguing a point that doesn;t even apply to you.  

I;m guessing, though, that somewhere in your own culture you have your own cultural appropriation to reconcile...just as some culture ha probably done the same to yours.


Quote:And I forgot that the appropriated culture has to be in the minority and have had a colonial relationship with the apropriator.
It's very difficult to pull off otherwise.  Don't you think?  How would a minority population who does not have access to the levers of control so effectively assert their will that they could rape and pillage the dominant demographic culture and prevent them from doing anything about it?   I mean, I;m not discounting what a small group of empowered exploters can do if they;re at the helm....they;ve managed to appropriate as well...but that's nmot exactly relevant to -my- country and cultures history of cultural appropriation.

We like to pick on the little guys.  We raped and pillaged from a position of overwhelming force, legalism, and systemic institutional and societal oppression. None too fond of negros, but we'll take that negro rhythm..kthxbai.
[/quote]

Quote:But still stand by what I said, I think if Christian rituals and emblems can be used in an untraditional sense then it has to be equal among all religions and cultural rituals.
I don't find the argument very compelling, myself.  Christian culture is dominant here...and they're the ones making christmas about malls and shit.  Similarly, I didn't find the argument earlier in thread that dreamcatchers hanging on redneck walls today were cultural appropriation very compelling.  The theives, if there ever were any, are dead.  It's -our- culture now, including the natives.  We're all americans, now.  Though..I suppose that might sound like a hollow platitude...if I we're staring down the barrel of continued inequality....and they are.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
Omg, we've gone back to cultural apropriation = rape and pillage. How the fuck did that happen?

What do you mean by somewhere in my own culture?
You mean somewhere in the culture of my ancestors?
That goes back to England, Ireland, Russia and Poland.
"We" were probably "apropriating" the shit out of "us" to speak in your terms.
To translate what I mean is that my ancestors probably beat the shit out of each other.
Half of me feels guilty and half of me forgives that other half so it's all been reconciled.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
It's just a phrase in common usage...but, we did actually rape and pillage, so..it's not like the story gets any better from there.  

The history of england, for many centuries, is the very bedrock of colonialism.  So, yeah, it's fair to guess that your culture did some appropriating - it's unavoidable, remember? We're all mutts. This doesn;t change the reality of cultural appropriation or how it was a shitty, shitty thing even if -maybe- we just can't help ourselves.  I'm glad that half of you found a way to forgive whatever other half of you for whatever.  

I suppose that just about every native american in this country probably has to find a way to do the same.  Plenty of african americans as well - and in those cases..the history might be a smidgeon more recent..and raw.   The activities themselves...might even be ongoing..if one found oneself a mixed ethnicity mexican american.

You'd almost think that, with all of this history of cultural and ethnic oppression, and theft, and rape and pillage....and even opposed narratives in our own ancestry..that we might give a shit about it a little more than we do. But, no...apparently, it produces racial apathy. Meh, you know, it happened along time ago when everyone was doing it and ended well and it wasn't me so I don't really care. No wonder it keeps happening.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 4:28 pm)Khemikal Wrote: It's just a phrase in common usage...but, we did actually rape and pillage, so..it's not like the story gets any better from there.  

The history of england, for many centuries, is the very bedrock of colonialism.  So, yeah, it's fair to guess that your culture did some appropriating - it's unavoidable, remember? We're all mutts. This doesn;t change the reality of cultural appropriation or how it was a shitty, shitty thing even if -maybe- we just can't help ourselves.  I'm glad that half of you found a way to forgive whatever other half of you for whatever.  

I suppose that just about every native american in this country probably has to find a way to do the same.  Plenty of african americans as well - and in those cases..the history might be a smidgeon more recent..and raw.   The activities themselves...might even be ongoing..if one found oneself a mixed ethnicity mexican american.

You'd almost think that, with all of this history of cultural and ethnic oppression, and theft, and rape and pillage....and even opposed narratives in our own ancestry..that we might give a shit about it a little more than we do. But, no...apparently, it produces racial apathy. Meh, you know, it happened along time ago when everyone was doing it and ended well and it wasn't me so I don't really care. No wonder it keeps happening.

If only more people could be a corner stone of virtue like yourself non white people would be safe in this horrible world.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
IKR, the bar is low. I think we can do it.
(white people might be safer too, from all the white genocide that's happening)

Say it with me "Yeah, that happened...yeah, that sucked." Whew....I know, it was super tough, but we made it!

-We- did make it...didn't we?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



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