"Cultural Appropriation"

[The Grand Nudger]

-aaaan about us being a done deal.  I have some thoughts, on that.  I agree, wholeheartedly.  Which puts us in the position of being able to show the world an example of a multicultural society.  To show that ethnic and cultural homogenity isn't an advantage.  That we can all, in fact, get along, ...and that we can work together to make sure that -none- of us are oppressed or victimized, lol 

We don't, though.  This isn't lost on the opponents of multiculturalism, in the political sphere.  They say 

"look..look, see how america fucked over the blacks and now the blacks and the whites are at it forever and ever and ever, amen?"  

"See how the browns come and rape and steal and take from society?"

"Multiculturalism has destroyed america!"

---

"Is bigotry wrong"...is that the question....lol?

Yep.  I'd say "Is bigotry intrinsically wrong?"  I'd also ask if there is a non-zero percent of the population who aren't bigots about someone or something.  

I mean, I'm gonna come down against bigots and bigotry pretty much everytime, so?  As to the other, I have a low bar..actually.  See, if everyone in america had 100% bigoted thoughts.....about everyone, but they managed not to do the genteel bigotry or racism or support or defend those that do or claim that it didn't happen....in short, if we could keep our little bigots in our own pants..... - I'd be willing to consider us 100% bigot free.  I do think that a significant portion of americans meet -that- bar, not knowing anything about the relative level of bigoted thoughts they have. I understand that it takes time. That there's a transition phase, lol.

I'm bigot permissive like that.  Crunchy can tell you all about it.   
(because it was your turn -    )

It seems to me that banding with like, and against unlike, is probably deeply ingrained in our species on a genetic level: it's just that we have a much more complex algorithm at work in determining how we decide who is "us" and who is "them": race, political affiliations, religious issues, and so many other things interacting with other.

You know what else is deeply ingrained in our species..genetically?  Smearing shit around with our hands.  Every baby does it.

[bennyboy]

You know what else is deeply ingrained in our species..genetically?  Smearing shit around with our hands.  Every baby does it.

Yep, and hormonal rage in puberty, and women crying at times that are annoying to men, and men raging at times that are annoying to everyone. We are a fucked up species, because we have minds capable of greatness, and genetic vestiges that keep us at chimp level.

My point in this thread is that those social instincts, being ingrained, keep popping up wherever there are ideas that move from thoughtful individuals to a group that uses those ideas as a social identity. In other words, we ARE predisposed toward bigotry, almost 100% of the time, when more than about 3 of us decide we are on the same page.

[vorlon13]

You know what else is deeply ingrained in our species..genetically?  Smearing shit around with our hands.  Every baby does it.

Yep, and hormonal rage in puberty, and women crying at times that are annoying to men, and men raging at times that are annoying to everyone.  We are a fucked up species, because we have minds capable of greatness, and genetic vestiges that keep us at chimp level.

My point in this thread is that those social instincts, being ingrained, keep popping up wherever there are ideas that move from thoughtful individuals to a group that uses those ideas as a social identity.  In other words, we ARE predisposed toward bigotry, almost 100% of the time, when more than about 3 of us decide we are on the same page.

some of us are bonobos . . .

[The Grand Nudger]

You know what else is deeply ingrained in our species..genetically?  Smearing shit around with our hands.  Every baby does it.

Yep, and hormonal rage in puberty, and women crying at times that are annoying to men, and men raging at times that are annoying to everyone.  We are a fucked up species, because we have minds capable of greatness, and genetic vestiges that keep us at chimp level.

Greatness, lol,  I'd settle for minds capable of not dicking each other constantly.   I think we have those, I think most of us manage, but there are some holdouts.......whose predictable responses to legitimate concerns of racial tension past and present are "meh, don't care, didn't happen and if it did it was a good thing" - and then proceed to ask how many proverbial mules they owe...how many units of white guilt they should feel. There are enough of these people..that even people who are not these people...manage to think that this is what is being discussed by the concept of cultural appropriation, for example. -and why not. You hear it over and over and over. It's almost as if the bigots are controlling a damaging narrative, or something.

My point in this thread is that those social instincts, being ingrained, keep popping up wherever there are ideas that move from thoughtful individuals to a group that uses those ideas as a social identity.  In other words, we ARE predisposed toward bigotry, almost 100% of the time, when more than about 3 of us decide we are on the same page.

All the more reason to root it out and shine a bright light on it wherever we see it.

[bennyboy]

My point in this thread is that those social instincts, being ingrained, keep popping up wherever there are ideas that move from thoughtful individuals to a group that uses those ideas as a social identity.  In other words, we ARE predisposed toward bigotry, almost 100% of the time, when more than about 3 of us decide we are on the same page.

All the more reason to root it out and shine a bright light on it wherever we see it.

I totally agree. But "bigot" can't mean "people who disagree with MY group's views," and it seems definitely to be that, more and more, left of center. (and btw I'm not trying to justify the right of center-- they are pretty much a lost cause)

[The Grand Nudger]

So, lets use our great minds to discuss my favorite group of currently active currently appropriating bigots.  The ones who want to build a wall.  

None too fond of mexicans, not exactly convinced (that's putting their dismissiveness lightly) of their contributions to our society - but awfully fond of their labor and their culture, of the greatness that they have produced for america.   

They want to step up the genteel racism they already do to mexicans.  They thinks it's not enough.  When a person say's hey, you're a racist trying to do genteel racism" they, to a man, pull the "aw shucks I don't know nothin bout no racism" -routine.  Let's Call it Pulling a Sessions.  Point out the racism..and they ask "what's racist about that?".  They tell us about their rights, their freedoms.  They tell us that people trying to say mean words at them are fascists robbing them of their rights and their freedoms...perhaps, even of their american greatness.

They want to make america great again.  To take back their country.  They dream of some time when america had more - forgetting, perhaps, that the mexicans were here..then, being productive as well.  They certainly can't see any contribution that these illegals provide today.  They're takers.  Gaming our system.  We already deprive them of due process and exploit them...but these guys, want us to do even -more.  They want us to take them out of their homes - away from their families.  Send them to camps, and deport them.  Even the children get the useless taker flak..draining our social benefits.  Even the -citizen- children are balled up into the group of foreign takers.  Anchor babies.

So, what we have here is a situation in which a culture that is currently benefiting (in real -and- intangible terms) from another culture to whom they are openly hostile and exploitative.  With whom they are in a distinctly powerful position to take what they want for what they want and discard the rest...even the people.  A culture who's contributions they minimize, at every turn, in the rush to dehumanize them as others and criminals. 

The question for the usual suspects being.  Is this;

A. Not happening. 
B. Unavoidable.
or
C. A good thing.

[Aegon]

Or led Zeppelin stealing song ideas off black blues artists,

"Oh, he just stole from me. But I steal from everybody!" -Woody Guthrie

Musicians steal from musicians all the time, ESPECIALLY in folk and blues. I wouldn't even call it wrong.

[The Grand Nudger]

All the more reason to root it out and shine a bright light on it wherever we see it.

I totally agree.  But "bigot" can't mean "people who disagree with MY group's views," and it seems definitely to be that, more and more, left of center.  (and btw I'm not trying to justify the right of center-- they are pretty much a lost cause)

Yes, bigots keeps saying that people are calling them bigots for not agreeing with them..rather than admitting that people are calling them bigots...for being bigots.  Bigots want to be bigots, but they don't like to be called bigots.  

I'm sure it would be great for them, if they could get it.

Now, I don't think that they're a lost cause. I know why they want to do the genteel racism to people. They think that maybe doing that will make america great again. They want the good life. A decent job. Safe streets. Some expectation that there will be a social safety net -for them- should they need it. They think that the browns are fucking all of this up. They're takers, they're diseased, they're criminals, they;re others. Conveniently, the browns want the same thing. That's the common ground, but no one is going to see that unless they face whatever bigotry is preventing them from doing so. Someone has to remind a bigot, that he's a bigot. That these bigots and facists are going to respond to that with "Not a bigot, not a bigot, you're the bigot" is a given. Those are the words directly from the prophets mouth, after all. It worked for him. The irony between want they want, and who they supported...and who and what they support..and who -does- want those same things..is palpable.

The good life, in a country with midnight deportations?
A decent job, in a country that punishes the exploited laborer?
Safe streets, where every brown or "seems brown" requires travelling papers?
A safety net, ha, not from these jackals!

Somehow, I remain unconvinced.

[Crunchy]

Khemikal Wrote:
I'm satisfied with the definition of cultural appropriation.  Refusal of acknowledgement is explicitly laid out in that definition

Khemikal Wrote:
Actually, I didn't say that, but it looks like a dumb person might. I know, I know, I'm bigoted against bigots.  A real superbigot.

So you didn't say that? lol, Even though it wasn't a quote, the sentiment is there for all to see. "Refusal of acknowledgement is explicitly laid out in that definition" is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written down. 

Now, please stop patting yourself on the back about being bigoted only against bigots. That's your giant ego talking because you're bigotry is against those who disagree with you whether or not they are actually bigots. 

big·ot
ˈbiɡət/
noun

1. a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
   

The fact that you vilify anyone/everyone who disagrees with you is what makes you a bigot. The fact that you think disagreement with you is a sign of racism or bigotry IS WHAT MAKES YOU A BIGOT.
Every bigot feels justified in their bigotry. That's why you think you're only bigoted against bigots. It's your way of justifying your bigotry. Everyone DESERVES the labels you smear them with correct? 
So let's make this perfectly clear. You're the dictionary definition of a bigot. You think your bigotry is justified just like every bigot out there. Like A Theist who doesn't see his own hypocrisy, you don't see your own bigotry even though you display it constantly in the casual and careless accusations you make.

Get off your high horse and take a look in the fucking mirror. You may want to be good, but that doesn't mean you are good. You're a terrible person for the casual accusations you make and vilification you engage in. You're not bigoted only against bigots, you're also bigoted against decent people who happen not to agree with you.

[The Grand Nudger]

So you didn't say that? lol, Even though it wasn't a quote, the sentiment is there for all to see.

You mean everyone™...I'm sure.

"Refusal of acknowledgement is explicitly laid out in that definition" is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written down. 

That- is- one of the things explicitly referenced in order to differentiate cultural appropriation from other forms of cultural transfer.  What don't you understand about that?  

Now, please stop patting yourself on the back about being bigoted only against bigots. That's your giant ego talking because you're bigotry is against those who disagree with you whether or not they are actually bigots. 

The fact that you vilify anyone/everyone who disagrees with you is what makes you a bigot. The fact that you think disagreement with you is a sign of racism or bigotry IS WHAT MAKES YOU A BIGOT.

Haven't I already said that I'm a super bigot?   I find it amusing that bigots will settle for hypocrisy as a defense of their bigotry.  I'd feel bad for stealing you thunder..except..you know, I'm a superbigot so I don't feel bad about how I frustrate you.

Every bigot feels justified in their bigotry. That's why you think you're only bigoted against bigots. It's your way of justifying your bigotry. Everyone DESERVES the labels you smear them with correct? 

You deserve them.  You seem to be taking offense for everyone as though..when I apply them to you and your handful of fellow suspects..... I'm applying them to everyone.  I don't even have to call your name...just blow the whistle "the usual suspects" and boom..like bigoty magic, you appear.  

So let's make this perfectly clear. You're the dictionary definition of a bigot. You think your bigotry is justified just like every bigot out there. Like A Theist who doesn't see his own hypocrisy, you don't see your own bigotry even though you display it constantly in the casual and careless accusations you make.

Oh noes, I'm like a dirty religionist too!  Any -other- group of people you want to compare me to?  Go ahead...it's okay, you're with a fellow bigot.  I wont judge you.  

Get off your high horse and take a look in the fucking mirror. You may want to be good, but that doesn't mean you are good. You're a terrible person for the casual accusations you make and vilification you engage in. You're not bigoted only against bigots, you're also bigoted against decent people who happen not to agree with you.

I think I make it explicitly clear that I'm on a pretty low horse.  Most people, I think...can jump right over it.  It's not my fault that the usual suspects can't bring themselves to try.