I'm done. I'm just done. I really can't take it anymore

[Neo-Scholastic]

[vorlon13]

and as my health insurance plight worsens I'm drifting right. 3 cancer scares since Xmas and a very real prospect of no health insurance at any price in 200 days tends to focus my attention.

I could lose the farm or worse.

[Aroura]

Stop reading or watching the news. If toy cannot manage that, stop reading the comments section.

I still wish to keep up with news, a little at least, so I stopped using FB except to share photos and stuff with friends, and I pretty much read only BBC because it has no comments section to temp me. I even had to ban myself from 538, a very nonpartisan site with insightful articals, because the comments sucked me in and pissed me off. I rarely comment in political threads on AF, or even read them anymore, and I had to block a few of the trollier members for my own sanity.

I feel your pain, really. It was intollerable for the first couple of months. Someone else advised me to just stop looking....it's the only thing to do, you can't change it.

Good luck my friend!

[Shell B]

I feel like you must not frequent the forum much or only see a part of it. We have a lot of conservative long-time members. Even the guy who formed the forum has some conservative views, though he's socially liberal to some degree. There is a ton of political disagreement here. It's been going on for years. I get into political debates on here quite regularly. They certainly aren't threads filled with people all agreeing and patting each other on the back.

As for it being one person, you were talking about headlines. Those headlines come from a small group of people, possibly even just one.

I lurk here almost every day. What you are saying is just not true. If you look at the political discourse in these forums and see reasoned and rational discussion, then I really have no reply. I could go over the discussion going on in the non- Min created threads on the front page point by point if you want and tell you how I interpret it.

I can also tell you that I am a centrist and personally get attacked on here politically for being right wing (even though that's not even true) viciously enough that it makes me lurk more than participate. I also have privately talked multiple people who either quit talking politics here or quit the forums altogether because of it. I'm not even a conservative, but to be one here you would need a very thick skin.

Huh? There's either a bunch of people just agreeing with each other or there isn't. Which is it? I'm not arguing that there's a bunch of reasoned debates going on. I'm arguing that it's not a bunch of people agreeing with each other, that we have people from all angles in these discussions.

People who want to talk politics should have thick skin. If they couldn't take being criticized, then I'm personally glad they don't participate. I've been called liberal. I've been called right wing. Yadda yada. To be fair, you're not exactly a fainting flower in your interactions here, so what's your problem with other people being dicks too?

What I'm saying is true. I've been on these forums for a very long time. The conservatives I know here also have been. We've also had conservatives in the past who wouldn't back down from the liberals here. I find it bizarre that you seem to think this is a mostly left-wing forum. We have a lot of socially liberal leaning people, but I think that's because we're mostly atheists. We don't have god to excuse our shitty treatment of minorities and not-straight folks. Maybe you define left wing differently. *shrugs*

politically there is very little disagreement on here

This. This is not correct.

Guys, I never said there isn't a liberal lean. I said there isn't an absence of conservatives and disagreements.

[Lek]

Maybe it's just me, but I really am just done with following the news cycle anymore. Or at least maybe I won't do it on Facebook. That way I don't have to read through all the vitriol and hate people have. America has seriously reached an incredible new low in my opinion. So, for instance with this heartbreaking news this morning of that congressman getting shot. I have noticed the majority of the comments were regarding his political affiliation. I mean, is that really what we have come to?  Where if it's someone who is a Democrat then it's a chance for those who are Republicans to use it to slam Democrats and vice versa? Maybe it's just me, and the fact I'm fairly young. I'm 23. So I really have only been able to recall the presidencies of 43 and 44. There really just seems to be too much hate going around now. Now, maybe it's because people have bigger platforms to spread their hate, ignorance and fear, but I am really just tired of it. 

What are your thoughts? 

I honestly blame Trump for this. I think he has started sort of a polar shift when it comes to politics in America. People are now starting to be much much more hateful [or at least it seems that way to me] on both sides because of this man.

I'm done, just done. You really seem to not be able to reason with those who disagree with you, either. It's literally turned into an us against them scenario.

Sincerely, 

Very disappointed in my country

But then again, according to those who support Trump this "isn't my country anymore".

Trump made me do it!!!

In reality it's very simple. We all know the right way to act and we should act that way. This country is not its president, but rather all the people who make up the country, living and interacting.

[CapnAwesome]

Yeah, I'd agree with Cap as well. I used to be a very moderate Dem but ever since Trump won the election I've been pushed further and further left and I've been losing my ability to have a calm, rational discussion about politics like I used to. I still consider myself better than A LOT of left-leaning members here, but overall the forum is undeniably hostile to conservatives.

I think it's mostly to do with Trump and also just what happens in a bubble. Even when most people would prefer to stay civil, dealing with the uncivil becomes so difficult that it drives out opposing views and attracts more people who'd prefer just to hear one point of view.

[Pat Mustard]

Yeah, I'd agree with Cap as well. I used to be a very moderate Dem but ever since Trump won the election I've been pushed further and further left and I've been losing my ability to have a calm, rational discussion about politics like I used to. I still consider myself better than A LOT of left-leaning members here, but overall the forum is undeniably hostile to conservatives.

That's because modern conservatism is hostile to whichever country it's members reside in.

[Zenith]

Maybe it's just me, but I really am just done with following the news cycle anymore. Or at least maybe I won't do it on Facebook. That way I don't have to read through all the vitriol and hate people have. America has seriously reached an incredible new low in my opinion. So, for instance with this heartbreaking news this morning of that congressman getting shot. I have noticed the majority of the comments were regarding his political affiliation. I mean, is that really what we have come to?  Where if it's someone who is a Democrat then it's a chance for those who are Republicans to use it to slam Democrats and vice versa? Maybe it's just me, and the fact I'm fairly young. I'm 23. So I really have only been able to recall the presidencies of 43 and 44. There really just seems to be too much hate going around now. Now, maybe it's because people have bigger platforms to spread their hate, ignorance and fear, but I am really just tired of it. 

What are your thoughts? 

I honestly blame Trump for this. I think he has started sort of a polar shift when it comes to politics in America. People are now starting to be much much more hateful [or at least it seems that way to me] on both sides because of this man.

I'm done, just done. You really seem to not be able to reason with those who disagree with you, either. It's literally turned into an us against them scenario.

Sincerely, 

Very disappointed in my country

But then again, according to those who support Trump this "isn't my country anymore".

Well, perhaps Canada is a better place to live in... just saying.

Anyway, I would personally trace it farther back than Trump: What allowed Trump to come to power in the first place?

There are 3 things I believe have influenced very much US presidential election, UK's brexit, and Turkish shift towards dictatorship:
1. Russia's annexing Crimea - gave rise to fear. Fear of getting into an open war with Russia. The end of the world.
2. Terrorist attacks - gave rise to fear. Blame. Great distrust in the media and the politicians, which to some people became smth like the enemy, "the system", "the establishment"
3. Refugees - the poor management of syrian refugees (which, sadly caused more non-syrians to be taken than actual victims). It gave a terrible image in front of dozens of millions of people about how "uncivilized" those "heathens" are like. Combined with Islam (foreign religion), rapes, violence, etc., it gave rise to fear, and the sense of countries having lost control.

And people respond to fear by giving a lot of power to brave people who come to "defend the nation" and "fight the enemy".

And then, you can go further:
3. We could blame EU for not handling the refugees properly. Or we could blame USA & Russia for their involvement in Syria, which led to the refugee crisis. Or on Assad.
2. Terrorist attacks - this, I believe, rose from the fact that muslims have continuously been allowed to come to western countries, and those
countries haven't taken the necessary precautions - instead assumed that "all religions are the same" and "all people are the same". What happened, as I see, is that muslims isolate themselves from the rest of the communities and preach easily in their mosques how gay people should be stoned to death, how public executions are ok, and how death penalty for their "sins" are not only okay, but necessary. Surprised, then, to see hatred and killings?
1. Russia's annexing of Crimea - well, I don't think we could've done something about it.

---

OP, it's perfectly relevant to talk about the guy's political affiliation. It looks an awful lot like he was killing people for their political affiliation. Sorry, but left nuts have to get called out as much as right nuts.

It is hardly just one person. Yes, the forum isn't set up to be politically biased, but politically there is very little disagreement on here and the disagreement there is, is viciously attacked routinely. I don't think any sort of conservative sticks around for long because of it, which turns it into an echo chamber. It definitely not just one person who says that people who disagree are stupid. That's probably a majority opinion here. Ironically the religious talk is far more tolerant.

I think I get what you're saying. I noticed it from my early days in this forum (back when I was a christian, btw). I don't think it's only the forum, but also people. Like mentality, or trend, I don't know. It's those moments when you see two or more people with opposing views, and the debates don't stick to the subject at hand, but quickly slip to "who's the smart guy and who's the idiot?" Like certain people seem to try to show how others are stupid and inadequate so that themselves would feel smarter, and this competition becomes more important than holding the conversation and sharing ideas & points of views.

You say that religious talk is far more tolerant. You should probably ask religious people how they are feeling.

Anyway, I believe the "forum" stuff has a deficiency too. Not this forum, but quite any. That is, it may be hard to realize that there's an actual full-fledged human being behind that post and behind that nickname with avatar, who had a particular upbringing, a background different than yours, about which you have no idea, and who sometimes reacts emotionally. In a face-to-face conversation it's usually easier, because you can't miss the humane part and you perceive far more than text - voice tone, facial expressions, etc., which gives realtime hints about how the other person is feeling. And you may get to know him and build trust, sympathise with, and understand him better even though you continue to disagree with him on certain (even important) issues.

---

Yeah, I'd agree with Cap as well. I used to be a very moderate Dem but ever since Trump won the election I've been pushed further and further left and I've been losing my ability to have a calm, rational discussion about politics like I used to. I still consider myself better than A LOT of left-leaning members here, but overall the forum is undeniably hostile to conservatives.

I think it's mostly to do with Trump and also just what happens in a bubble. Even when most people would prefer to stay civil, dealing with the uncivil becomes so difficult that it drives out opposing views and attracts more people who'd prefer just to hear one point of view.

I believe that news agencies are at fault here too. They tend to polarise the society. It's actually quite easy to turn people against one another: Just tell the right things to people behind their TVs.

News agencies tell people what happened, how to understand it, what to believe of it, what it means, how you should feel about it and what you should do about it, and that they're the only ones who speak the truth and that whoever says otherwise is blind, idiot, or ill intended.

In many people I speak to or hear I see the very reflection of their source of news echoed through their mouths or facebook posts. The reason why this works I believe is quite simple: When people are told everything about how they should understand an event, they are far less likely to judge it independently by themselves.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I feel like you must not frequent the forum much or only see a part of it. We have a lot of conservative long-time members. Even the guy who formed the forum has some conservative views, though he's socially liberal to some degree. There is a ton of political disagreement here. It's been going on for years. I get into political debates on here quite regularly. They certainly aren't threads filled with people all agreeing and patting each other on the back.

As for it being one person, you were talking about headlines. Those headlines come from a small group of people, possibly even just one.

I lurk here almost every day. What you are saying is just not true. If you look at the political discourse in these forums and see reasoned and rational discussion, then I really have no reply. I could go over the discussion going on in the non- Min created threads on the front page point by point if you want and tell you how I interpret it.

I can also tell you that I am a centrist and personally get attacked on here politically for being right wing (even though that's not even true) viciously enough that it makes me lurk more than participate. I also have privately talked multiple people who either quit talking politics here or quit the forums altogether because of it. I'm not even a conservative, but to be one here you would need a very thick skin.

I'm centrist and suffer no such issue, though I don't shy away from politics at all.

[brewer]

OP Title: Vorlon hears that all of the time.