Agnostics are atheists with no guts!
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Atheists, what are your thoughts on us Agnostics?
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 RE: Atheists, what are your thoughts on us Agnostics?
November 29, 2017 at 12:35 pm
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2017 at 12:35 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
I am just as confused as ever on the difference between agnostic and atheist.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh  RE: Atheists, what are your thoughts on us Agnostics?
November 29, 2017 at 12:46 pm
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2017 at 12:48 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
(November 29, 2017 at 12:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am just as confused as ever on the difference between agnostic and atheist. The colloquial usage can be confusing because it's nearly always used incorrectly. The (incorrect) popular thought among people who aren't familiar with the terms is that agnostic = i don't know if god exists, and atheist = I know god does not exist. The actual meaning of the terms (or more accurately, positions) are slightly different and actually pretty easy to understand. A/gnosticism addresses knowledge - an agnostic would say that the existence of god is unknown/unknowable, that we can't say that we 'know it to be true' that a god exists or does not exist, whereas a gnostic would be the opposite - they would say that you can know for sure whether or not a god exists. A/theism addresses one's belief - a theist would say they believe that it's true or likely true that a god exists (with any attendant doctrinal/religious details), whereas an atheist would say they do not believe that a god exists. The terms are not opposite ends of a spectrum, neither is agnostic a 'middle' position. A/gnosticism and a/theism describe two different things. I am an agnostic atheist. I don't think we can know for sure if a god exists or not, but i currently do not believe that a god exists. Many theists are agnostic as well - they don't claim they know for absolute certain that a god exists, but they believe that one does. Gnostic theists would obviously say they believe that a god exists, and also that they KNOW for certain that god exists. So there isn't really such a thing as simply "an agnostic," because that doesn't tell you at all what they believe.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
I guess people have different definitions. Someone else just told me atheism is lack of belief and lack of disbelief in God. I dont see how that definition in particular is different from agnostic, or even apathetic.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh  (November 29, 2017 at 12:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am just as confused as ever on the difference between agnostic and atheist. The difference between an agnostic and atheist is: An atheist is absolutely sure there is no god. An agnostic is not sure whether there is a god or not. I hope this clears things up... RE: Atheists, what are your thoughts on us Agnostics?
November 29, 2017 at 12:54 pm
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2017 at 1:03 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
(November 29, 2017 at 12:50 pm)ƵenKlassen Wrote:(November 29, 2017 at 12:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am just as confused as ever on the difference between agnostic and atheist. That's just not true at all. I'm an atheist and I don't claim certainty that there is no god. Atheism and agnosticism address two different questions. A/theism addresses the theological belief question (do you believe X is true?), whereas a/gnosticism addresses the epistemological knowledge question (are you CERTAIN X is true/do you think X can be known to be true?). (November 29, 2017 at 12:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I guess people have different definitions. Someone else just told me atheism is lack of belief and lack of disbelief in God. I dont see how that definition in particular is different from agnostic, or even apathetic. Yeah, this is why it's confusing. It's far easier to just talk about the actual positions instead of the label, but actually having people understand what a label means would be convenient. Atheism = 'i do not believe a god(s) exist' = lack of a belief in god(s) Even more muddy, is that there isn't really a term for someone who claims "there is no god". This person would certainly be an atheist, but would be making a further, separate claim instead of just responding to the theist claim, and they would need another term for their separate claim. This is what gets rolled up into the 'atheist' label, which only adds to the confusion. Atheists do not have a belief in a god. Some may go one step further and claim that gods do NOT exist, but that isn't what atheism is - that's atheism + something else that doesn't really have a good term.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson  RE: Atheists, what are your thoughts on us Agnostics?
November 29, 2017 at 1:08 pm
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2017 at 1:08 pm by Whateverist.)
Anyone who answers no to the god belief question is an atheist. Mother Teresa is supposed to have worried about her atheism. I'm sure she would also have admitted to not really knowing for sure.
Some also believe no gods exist, some of those are against religious practice, others admit they don't know, still others claim not to understand what the 'gods' in question are while others just don't much care. Most of us would cite more than one of these. I admit to all except being against what I don't fully understand.  (November 29, 2017 at 12:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am just as confused as ever on the difference between agnostic and atheist. This may help you visualise it:
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
 (November 29, 2017 at 5:22 pm)Cyberman Wrote: This may help you visualise it: Glad they kept all the fence sitters on the left.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Is fence-sitting even possible? Either you do believe/know something or you don't.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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