Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?

[Succubus]

...The apostle Matthew was  tax collector ...

[JackRussell]

What the fuck is spirit anyway? Let alone Holy spirit.

Has anybody ever given a clear definition of spirit beyond this is what I really, really believe stage?

[Jehanne]

Hebrew was also known, but probably not Greek, as that was the language of the educated, and the Gospels say that the disciples were illiterate.

I don't remember where the gospels say that all the disciples were illiterate.  Where does it say that?  The apostle Matthew was  tax collector and I would assume that he would have to keep documentation in his job.  In fact, the bible doesn't identify who most of his disciples were.  How would we know they if were all illiterate or not?

Most (over 95%) of the peoples in the ancient world were illiterate.  As the disciples were lower-case workers (fisherman, carpenters, etc.), they were almost certainly illiterate, and there's no good reason, historically, to think otherwise.  Schools were virtually non-existent in those days, and so, they would have had to have been taught how to read and write, which was exclusive to the upper Roman and Jewish classes, which they were not part of.  Besides, if they were literate, it simply begs the question as to why they did not leave any writings?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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John is a Gospel that few scholars trust for any historical authenticity, and your example is one of many reasons why the Jesus Seminar coded the Gospel of John with nothing but black beads (not a single word from the mouth of the historical Jesus.)  John and his community were simply not interested in the historical Jesus, but in theologizing, turning Jesus from an apocalyptic prophet into the Son of God.  They were no different than the Gnostics, except for the fact that they were on the other end of the Jesus spectrum; whereas, the Gnostics saw Jesus in almost spiritual terms, John's community saw him in almost physical, yet divine, terms.  Eventually, the two memes were forced to merge and you got the physical/spiritual God-man.

The Jesus seminar began with the assumption that Jesus isn't who the bible says he is.  They dismissed 2,000 years of christian scholarship right off the bat.  They already assumed that the message of orthodox christianity was untrue.  I've always wondered how they knew what words Jesus did and didn't say.  John didn't see Jesus as almost physical, but a totally physical man and also God.  John was totally different than the gnostics.

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So you have a bunch of Greeks who worship at the Passover.  They spoke to the Apostles requesting a meeting with Yeshua.  If the Apostles and Jesus couldn't speak and understand the Greek dialect then the Greeks must have been fluent in Hebrew or Aramaic.  

This is a mystery indeed.

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Give your audience some credit for smarts.  Someone in the group knew both languages or they found someone who did to interpret for them.

So, a handful of Greeks knew Hebrew and Aramaic but large groups of them went to Jerusalem to participate in the passover rituals?  Sounds legit.  There was no Disneyland in the area.

[Godscreated]

The Egyptians were masters at erasing their own history. Pharaohs would blot out anything they disliked or went against the things they believed. The 25th Dynasty was headed by black Pharaohs (Kushites), when the Egyptian people took back their kingdom they erased everything about the black Pharaohs that they could find, names included. The Bible however was outside their control and in it is mentioned a black Pharaoh by name, oh goodness the Bible more realistic in telling history than those Egyptians that erased or rewrote history. How are we to trust Egyptian history when we do not even know what is reality of history of the rewrite of history to suit a Pharaoh's pride.

GC

It's much, much more than that.  If the Hebrews were in Egypt, then there would be some archeological evidence of that, and, indeed, there is none, an untenable proposition, as there should have been some artifacts from just outside of Egypt, from the Hebrews leaving.  Again, find me a scholar who takes the Exodus story at face value who is not also a Biblical inerrantist (an absurd position equivalent to Holocaust denial), and post their findings and/or reasons here.  All the evidence is that the Biblical narratives were written much later than was traditionally believed and underwent layers upon layers of redaction and modification up until and even beyond the 1st century of the common era.

Why would I even be interested in those who do not believe in the Bible or even those who partially believe it. There is no proof of redaction of scripture, no one that I know of has ever shown that anyone tried to obscure the meaning of scripture. We believe there was some small additions in the NT but nothing that changed the meaning of scripture. No proof has ever been given of the scriptures being written other than the time period they occurred or, in prophecy, before they occurred. Until the original documents are found this want happen either.  Just what do you think might be found "just outside of Egypt," as you say. Only a few Israelites entered Egypt and they grew in population from those, this is plainly stated in scripture. So anything and everything they had would be of Egyptian influence, so looking for traditional Hebrew artifacts wouldn't help. God sent them to Egypt to grow His nation of chosen people and took them out to show them His power and for a future reference to His redeeming power through Christ.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

It's much, much more than that.  If the Hebrews were in Egypt, then there would be some archeological evidence of that, and, indeed, there is none, an untenable proposition, as there should have been some artifacts from just outside of Egypt, from the Hebrews leaving.  Again, find me a scholar who takes the Exodus story at face value who is not also a Biblical inerrantist (an absurd position equivalent to Holocaust denial), and post their findings and/or reasons here.  All the evidence is that the Biblical narratives were written much later than was traditionally believed and underwent layers upon layers of redaction and modification up until and even beyond the 1st century of the common era.

Why would I even be interested in those who do not believe in the Bible or even those who partially believe it. There is no proof of redaction of scripture, no one that I know of has ever shown that anyone tried to obscure the meaning of scripture. We believe there was some small additions in the NT but nothing that changed the meaning of scripture. No proof has ever been given of the scriptures being written other than the time period they occurred or, in prophecy, before they occurred. Until the original documents are found this want happen either.  Just what do you think might be found "just outside of Egypt," as you say. Only a few Israelites entered Egypt and they grew in population from those, this is plainly stated in scripture. So anything and everything they had would be of Egyptian influence, so looking for traditional Hebrew artifacts wouldn't help. God sent them to Egypt to grow His nation of chosen people and took them out to show them His power and for a future reference to His redeeming power through Christ.

Didn't you know that all of the Levant to the Tigris River was part of Egypt?  So everyone in that area at that time was in fact in Egypt.  The Israelites didn't leave Egypt; Egypt left the Israelites.

[Godscreated]

Why would I even be interested in those who do not believe in the Bible or even those who partially believe it. There is no proof of redaction of scripture, no one that I know of has ever shown that anyone tried to obscure the meaning of scripture. We believe there was some small additions in the NT but nothing that changed the meaning of scripture. No proof has ever been given of the scriptures being written other than the time period they occurred or, in prophecy, before they occurred. Until the original documents are found this want happen either.  Just what do you think might be found "just outside of Egypt," as you say. Only a few Israelites entered Egypt and they grew in population from those, this is plainly stated in scripture. So anything and everything they had would be of Egyptian influence, so looking for traditional Hebrew artifacts wouldn't help. God sent them to Egypt to grow His nation of chosen people and took them out to show them His power and for a future reference to His redeeming power through Christ.

Didn't you know that all of the Levant to the Tigris River was part of Egypt?  So everyone in that area at that time was in fact in Egypt.  The Israelites didn't leave Egypt; Egypt left the Israelites.

There's something wrong with your thinking if the Israelites left in the 13th century BC. Two dates seem to be supported by the scriptures but as we know only one can be true so until someone can establish the time of Israel's exit we could argue this till the cows come home.

[Jehanne]

It's much, much more than that.  If the Hebrews were in Egypt, then there would be some archeological evidence of that, and, indeed, there is none, an untenable proposition, as there should have been some artifacts from just outside of Egypt, from the Hebrews leaving.  Again, find me a scholar who takes the Exodus story at face value who is not also a Biblical inerrantist (an absurd position equivalent to Holocaust denial), and post their findings and/or reasons here.  All the evidence is that the Biblical narratives were written much later than was traditionally believed and underwent layers upon layers of redaction and modification up until and even beyond the 1st century of the common era.

Why would I even be interested in those who do not believe in the Bible or even those who partially believe it. There is no proof of redaction of scripture, no one that I know of has ever shown that anyone tried to obscure the meaning of scripture. We believe there was some small additions in the NT but nothing that changed the meaning of scripture. No proof has ever been given of the scriptures being written other than the time period they occurred or, in prophecy, before they occurred. Until the original documents are found this want happen either.  Just what do you think might be found "just outside of Egypt," as you say. Only a few Israelites entered Egypt and they grew in population from those, this is plainly stated in scripture. So anything and everything they had would be of Egyptian influence, so looking for traditional Hebrew artifacts wouldn't help. God sent them to Egypt to grow His nation of chosen people and took them out to show them His power and for a future reference to His redeeming power through Christ.

I think that you have been brainwashed; your belief is a sickness, which almost ruined my life.  My biggest regret is one of having been raised as an evangelical Christian and then abandoning it only to return, like a dog, to my vomit.

But, let's talk about this:

The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses, is a comma (a short clause) found in Latin manuscripts of the First Epistle of John[1] at 5:7–8. The comma first appeared in the Vulgate manuscripts of the 9th century.[2] The first Greek manuscript that contains the comma dates from the 15th century.[3] The comma is absent from the Ethiopiac, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament.[3] The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies.[1] As the comma does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages, the debate is mainly limited to the English-speaking world due to the King James Only movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

[Godscreated]

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Why would I even be interested in those who do not believe in the Bible or even those who partially believe it. There is no proof of redaction of scripture, no one that I know of has ever shown that anyone tried to obscure the meaning of scripture. We believe there was some small additions in the NT but nothing that changed the meaning of scripture. No proof has ever been given of the scriptures being written other than the time period they occurred or, in prophecy, before they occurred. Until the original documents are found this want happen either.  Just what do you think might be found "just outside of Egypt," as you say. Only a few Israelites entered Egypt and they grew in population from those, this is plainly stated in scripture. So anything and everything they had would be of Egyptian influence, so looking for traditional Hebrew artifacts wouldn't help. God sent them to Egypt to grow His nation of chosen people and took them out to show them His power and for a future reference to His redeeming power through Christ.

---

I think that you have been brainwashed; your belief is a sickness, which almost ruined my life.  My biggest regret is one of having been raised as an evangelical Christian and then abandoning it only to return, like a dog, to my vomit.

But, let's talk about this:

The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses, is a comma (a short clause) found in Latin manuscripts of the First Epistle of John[1] at 5:7–8. The comma first appeared in the Vulgate manuscripts of the 9th century.[2] The first Greek manuscript that contains the comma dates from the 15th century.[3] The comma is absent from the Ethiopiac, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament.[3] The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies.[1] As the comma does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages, the debate is mainly limited to the English-speaking world due to the King James Only movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

Like I stated and you ignored there has been a few passages Christian scholars believed were placed in the NT, but they haven't changed the message or meaning of the scriptures. Now with this said a second time and finial time why didn't you address the Israelite artifacts?

GC

[Godscreated]

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Why would I even be interested in those who do not believe in the Bible or even those who partially believe it. There is no proof of redaction of scripture, no one that I know of has ever shown that anyone tried to obscure the meaning of scripture. We believe there was some small additions in the NT but nothing that changed the meaning of scripture. No proof has ever been given of the scriptures being written other than the time period they occurred or, in prophecy, before they occurred. Until the original documents are found this want happen either.  Just what do you think might be found "just outside of Egypt," as you say. Only a few Israelites entered Egypt and they grew in population from those, this is plainly stated in scripture. So anything and everything they had would be of Egyptian influence, so looking for traditional Hebrew artifacts wouldn't help. God sent them to Egypt to grow His nation of chosen people and took them out to show them His power and for a future reference to His redeeming power through Christ.

---

I think that you have been brainwashed; your belief is a sickness, which almost ruined my life.  My biggest regret is one of having been raised as an evangelical Christian and then abandoning it only to return, like a dog, to my vomit.

But, let's talk about this:

The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses, is a comma (a short clause) found in Latin manuscripts of the First Epistle of John[1] at 5:7–8. The comma first appeared in the Vulgate manuscripts of the 9th century.[2] The first Greek manuscript that contains the comma dates from the 15th century.[3] The comma is absent from the Ethiopiac, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament.[3] The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies.[1] As the comma does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages, the debate is mainly limited to the English-speaking world due to the King James Only movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

Like I stated and you ignored there has been a few passages Christian scholars believed were placed in the NT, but they haven't changed the message or meaning of the scriptures. Now with this said a second time and finial time why didn't you address the Israelite artifacts?
I haven't been brain washed, I closely examine many things of the scriptures and I'm sure that I do not have a sickness of the kind you are suggesting. It's too bad that you believed you were brainwashed but hey we'll all find out in the end of our lives, right.

GC