The Official "Damned Trump" Thread

[downbeatplumb]

"For many, many years, Turkey, in all fairness, they've had a legitimate problem...They had terrorists, they had a lot of people in there they couldn't have...and they had to have it cleaned out...This outcome is something they've been trying to get for 10 years...What Turkey is getting now is, they're not going to have to kill millions of people, and millions of people aren't going to have to kill them...Great day for the Kurds. It's a really great day for civilization...We've gotten everything we could have ever dreamed of...Everybody is happy...This is an amazing outcome...We will be watching. We will be in charge."
-- Trump

Trump congratulating himself for a pause in a war he caused.

[Deesse23]

Let's back up a bit, Dmitry.  Are you contending that Trump's avoidance of conscription was justified because 'conscription is a form of slavery'?

Boru

I think he just doesn't understand what slavery is.

And neither that conscripts are still full citizens and not property like slaves. Its actually a requirement to be a citizen to become conscripted. Adding F22 raptors and biblical slavery to the discusison just shows that this idiot isnt interested in discussion at all. Its a fucking troll.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I think he just doesn't understand what slavery is.

And neither that conscripts are still full citizens and not property like slaves. Its actually a requirement to be a citizen to become conscripted. Adding F22 raptors and biblical slavery to the discusison just shows that this idiot isnt interested in discussion at all. Its a fucking troll.

Oh, I dunno.  Pointing out that the US doesn't sell nuclear weapons to other countries is a pretty compelling argument that Donald Trump was morally right to get a doctor to lie about his bone spurs.  It all hangs together.

Boru

[Dmitry1983]

Let's back up a bit, Dmitry.  Are you contending that Trump's avoidance of conscription was justified because 'conscription is a form of slavery'?

Boru

I'm pro-slavery since it is in the Bible. But as an intellectually honest atheist if you are against slavery then you also should be against conscription.

---

Let's back up a bit, Dmitry.  Are you contending that Trump's avoidance of conscription was justified because 'conscription is a form of slavery'?

Boru

I think he just doesn't understand what slavery is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

In a broader sense, however, the word slavery may also refer to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. Scholars also use the more generic terms such as unfree labour or forced labour to refer to such situations.[2] However, and especially under slavery in broader senses of the word, slaves may have some rights and protections according to laws or customs.

Explain what I don't understand here. Definition seems pretty straightforward to me

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Let's back up a bit, Dmitry.  Are you contending that Trump's avoidance of conscription was justified because 'conscription is a form of slavery'?

Boru

I'm pro-slavery since it is in the Bible. But as an intellectually honest atheist if you are against slavery then you also should be against conscription.

Conscription democratizes defense.

During WWII the US military had more volunteers than they could process. And some of those volunteers were in essential trades, like airframe construction for airplanes. So it was announced that there would be no more volunteering except for special cases. The local selective service boards screen the available pool of potential draftees from those whose "number had come up." Men in essential trades were classified as 2-A, 2-B, or 2-C.

[Deesse23]

I'm pro-slavery since it is in the Bible. But as an intellectually honest atheist if you are against slavery then you also should be against conscription.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

In a broader sense, however, the word slavery may also refer to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. Scholars also use the more generic terms such as unfree labour or forced labour to refer to such situations.[2] However, and especially under slavery in broader senses of the word, slaves may have some rights and protections according to laws or customs.

Explain what I don't understand here. Definition seems pretty straightforward to me

Atheism has nothing to do with slavery. You can be an atheist and be in favour of slavery (or not).
If you are pro slavery á la bible, then you are morally bancrupt and should be ashamed of yourself.
You are pro biblical slavery but are defending a much more liberal definition, that is dishonest, and you should be ashamed of yourself, if you arent already for being pro slavery at all.
Conscription still isnt slavery, not even remotely. Multiple assertions dont make things true, particularly after you have been refuted, multiple times.
Lying for Jesus is still lying. He wont be amused.

[downbeatplumb]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

In a broader sense, however, the word slavery may also refer to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. Scholars also use the more generic terms such as unfree labour or forced labour to refer to such situations.[2] However, and especially under slavery in broader senses of the word, slaves may have some rights and protections according to laws or customs.

Explain what I don't understand here. Definition seems pretty straightforward to me

Except that conscription is specifically not unfree labour.

However, under the ILO of 1930, the term forced or compulsory labour shall not include:
• any work or service exacted in virtue of laws for work of a purely military character;
• any work or service which forms part of the normal civic obligations of the citizens of a fully country;


And indeed nor is it forced labour.

Exceptions included work done while serving in a military organization, community service when the work serves the community, and anyone convicted and serving a prison sentence.[

according to the links in the Wikipedia article on slavery you posted.

[Chad32]

I'm learning lately that conscription isn't as bad as I thought it was. That's nice.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm learning lately that conscription isn't as bad as I thought it was. That's nice.

Conscripts went through boot camp with volunteers, and took their chances. The anti-war people portrayed them as victims in the 60s. Yada yada.

[Dmitry1983]

I'm pro-slavery since it is in the Bible. But as an intellectually honest atheist if you are against slavery then you also should be against conscription.

Conscription democratizes defense.

Slavery democratizes cotton picking

---

If you are pro slavery á la bible, then you are morally bancrupt and should be ashamed of yourself.

Atheists don't have objective morality so your opinion is irrelevant.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

Explain what I don't understand here. Definition seems pretty straightforward to me

Except that conscription is specifically not unfree labour.

However, under the ILO of 1930, the term forced or compulsory labour shall not include:
• any work or service exacted in virtue of laws for work of a purely military character;
• any work or service which forms part of the normal civic obligations of the citizens of a fully country;


And indeed nor is it forced labour.

Exceptions included work done while serving in a military organization, community service when the work serves the community, and anyone convicted and serving a prison sentence.[

according to the links in the Wikipedia article on slavery you posted.

According to wikipedia article itself:

 In a broader sense, however, the word slavery may also refer to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. Scholars also use the more generic terms such as unfree labour or forced labour to refer to such situations.[2] However, and especially under slavery in broader senses of the word, slaves may have some rights and protections according to laws or customs.

Forced labour, or unfree labour, is sometimes used to refer to when an individual is forced to work against their own will, under threat of violence or other punishment, but the generic term unfree labour is also used to describe chattel slavery, as well as any other situation in which a person is obliged to work against their own will and a person's ability to work productively is under the complete control of another person.[2] This may also include institutions not commonly classified as slavery, such as serfdom, conscription and .