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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 11:34 am
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2022 at 11:34 am by onlinebiker.)
(September 23, 2022 at 9:42 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Manning was a whistleblower who paid the price for publicizing classified documents that showed US wrongdoing. That seems different in important ways from stealing and hoarding (hopefully) documents that belong to the government. But YMMV, I guess.
There is no such thing as " whistleblowers" when it comes to classified documents. There are just people that compromise national security. Frequently they have an agenda. Agreeing with their assessment does not make their actions correct.
Have you had a security clearance in the US?? I have. I held a top secret for most of my enlistment. If you see something illegal that is classified- you go through the chain of command. Going outside is ALWAYS an offense. No exceptions. Ever.
Manning was no hero.
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 12:06 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2022 at 12:07 pm by The Architect Of Fate.)
Just because the government slaps the label classified on their misdeeds doesn't make them not misdeeds nor does it make the person who brings it to light any less in the right or any less a hero. This contrasted with Trump who seemingly had no such goal. So while it was equally right she was legally punished. Morally Manning was in the right and Trump is in the wrong.
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 12:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2022 at 12:10 pm by onlinebiker.)
Shut up Cheyrl. You are out of your element. You have zero experience, knowledge or wisdom to impart.
Just a halfassed opinion and your nose up my ass.n
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 12:27 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2022 at 12:28 pm by Fireball.)
Manning committed unlawful acts. "Blowing the whistle" is one thing, but releasing 100s of thousands of documents is quite another. Should have been locked up for life, imo. With classified info, the laws are pretty straightforward. Divulging the contents of even one "confidential" document (the lowest classification) is enough for 10 years in the pokey. #notahero
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 12:43 pm
Quote:Shut up Cheyrl. You are out of your element. You have zero experience, knowledge or wisdom to impart.
Just a halfassed opinion and your nose up my ass.n
No, actually you shut up Debbie. You have zero experience, knowledge or wisdom to impart.
Just a half-assed opinion and your nose up my ass. After all, if you didn't really care you wouldn't bother to respond 
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 12:45 pm
Quote:Manning committed unlawful acts. "Blowing the whistle" is one thing, but releasing 100s of thousands of documents is quite another. Should have been locked up for life, imo. With classified info, the laws are pretty straightforward. Divulging the contents of even one "confidential" document (the lowest classification) is enough for 10 years in the pokey. #notahero
The number of documents does not change whether she was right or wrong and unlawful does not equal immoral. #ahero
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 2:33 pm
(September 23, 2022 at 8:35 am)onlinebiker Wrote: (September 23, 2022 at 4:06 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You're the one who brought up the classification thing. But - as has been pointed out to you - Chelsea Manning stole documents in an attempt to expose wrongdoing, while Trump's motivation is less clear. They both stole government documents, but it's hardly the same thing.
Like it or not, motive matters.
Boru
Horseshit.
Manning was not in a position to declassify anything. Trump was.
When you get a security clearance you agree to not doing what Manning did. Your opinion of the legitamacy of the classified material means fuck-all. You compromise the info - you go to jail. In wartime - they shoot your ass. Period.
Got a problem with that?
Get a different job.
Try to understand this: Trump’s possession of those documents is illegal whether or not they were declassified. What Manning did was illegal because those documents were classified. Stop bringing up who was able to declassify and who wasn’t. It’s immaterial as regards Trump.
Manning stole and arranged to have classified material published to expose illegal actions of your government. Illegal? Absolutely, and you’re correct to say so. Trump stole and hoarded government documents for some as yet unknown purpose. Also illegal and you’re again correct to say so.
But stop saying ‘they both did the same thing’. That’s simply wrong.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 3:42 pm
(September 23, 2022 at 2:33 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 23, 2022 at 8:35 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Horseshit.
Manning was not in a position to declassify anything. Trump was.
When you get a security clearance you agree to not doing what Manning did. Your opinion of the legitamacy of the classified material means fuck-all. You compromise the info - you go to jail. In wartime - they shoot your ass. Period.
Got a problem with that?
Get a different job.
Try to understand this: Trump’s possession of those documents is illegal whether or not they were declassified. What Manning did was illegal because those documents were classified. Stop bringing up who was able to declassify and who wasn’t. It’s immaterial as regards Trump.
Manning stole and arranged to have classified material published to expose illegal actions of your government. Illegal? Absolutely, and you’re correct to say so. Trump stole and hoarded government documents for some as yet unknown purpose. Also illegal and you’re again correct to say so.
But stop saying ‘they both did the same thing’. That’s simply wrong.
Boru
They compromised classified documents.
Same offense for both.
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 3:49 pm
I would hope that we hold the office of the president to a higher standard...but after Trump, I guess that's no longer the case.
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 23, 2022 at 3:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2022 at 3:57 pm by The Architect Of Fate.)
Quote:They compromised classified documents.
Same offense for both.
One wanted to expose government corruption. The other can give no valid reason why he took the documents and has frequently lied about the documents.
Motivation matters morally even if it's the same crime.
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
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