Hybrid theory between freewill and determinism

[bennyboy]

I suppose it depends what you call the self, and if the self is multiple in nature, which part of it should be expressed in order to be called free will, and which part would be expressed in order to call it an external motivation or an obstacle to the will.

In general, I think we mostly see the conscious intent (imagined outcome and formulated plan of action) as will, and our unconscious drives (e.g. any of the seven sins) as external to that agency. Thus, the Christian view of human struggle: a good conscious intent vs. the influence of the Devil (which I'd call our animal nature or baser instinct).

However, if I am to conquer those baser instincts, either they aren't too strong, or it is in my nature to fight strongly against them. So I'd still say all those examples you gave were an expression of the self in making decisions. I certainly wouldn't call such a struggle FREE will, though, since however you react to them, those baser instincts dominate your behavior: either in your struggle to overcome them, or in your failure to do so.

[Rev. Rye]

And that's why I said most people don't know how to use it. Really, the way I see it, free will is more the exception than the rule.

Funny thing about philosophy: damn near every significant term in it can be and has been defined in wildly differing ways. That's why the discipline hasn't really come to much of a consensus since Descartes said "cogito, ergo sum." Why, yes. That is frustrating.

[bennyboy]

I suppose the spiritualist's efforts, Christian or otherwise, to disengage from our baser animal instincts through constant meditation (prayer, philosophical insight, whatever) could be seen as a deliberate attempt to strengthen the will and thereby make it more free. In fact, I'd say this is one of the things that all religions have in common-- through insight, the capacity to overcome sexual desire, fear of the unknown, or even pain, and therefore be more free to act on conscious intent rather than animal impulse.

[Losty]

Hybrid theory

[Rev. Rye]

Hybrid theory

Eh, I preferred "In the End." Is it too soon to say I always preferred Mike to Chester?

Onto the topic at hand, I grew up in a Christian environment where damn near everything we did except metabolise, breathe, and heartbeat (and I'm sure there may be some Christians who consider even those free will) counted as part of "Free will." Meanwhile, sometimes, free will gets interpreted in such a way that it becomes almost a strawman position. I think the definition I've been arguing for is, at the very least, an reasonably understandable definition, even if it seems a bit more bound in with developmental stage theories than the ideas brought into us by religion and the older philosophies.

[Losty]

Chester was my idol

[Rev. Rye]

Chester was my idol

Really, the king of Nu-Metal singers is and always has been Jonathan Davis.

Honestly, until the news broke, it always seemed up in the air whether Chester was really singing from the heart about angst or if he was just following a burgeoning trend. With Jonathan, well, it's impossible to listen to the last song on Korn's debut album without getting a resounding answer to that question:





Fun fact: The rest of the band didn't know until Jonathan started having his big meltdown that this was based on an actual story in his life, although in reality, it was a (female) babysitter and not his father abusing him. You can actually hear the band try to keep the song going for over a minute and a half after his breakdown before they just decide it can't continue. It took over 21 years for the band to bring itself to do this song live again, and it seems it's still hard for him to perform it.

[Losty]

I don't like his voice. I've never been a fan of Korn. I couldn't listen to the whole song because it was too disturbing. Very sad that he went through that.

[Rev. Rye]

I don't like his voice. I've never been a fan of Korn. I couldn't listen to the whole song because it was too disturbing. Very sad that he went through that.

Some folks like hearing a guy singing about wounds that will not heal, others prefer witnessing a guy showing off that festering wound and explaining how it got there. Go figure.