No Trans In The Military Says Trump

[Shell B]

I thought he had species dysphoria.

[Brian37]

I wouldn't ever expect the military to cover surgeries like that, but why not things like therapy? The base I was on had a great system for all sorts of mental and physical therapy that was provided to the troops. It wouldn't be an extra burden at all. And as I noted before, hormone treatment is also very inexpensive. Nothing but surgery would be a game changer here.

I would.  Full VA coverage is full VA coverage.  Projections for the full range of trans procedures have already been run, the potential cost was found to be negligible.  That includes surgery, so why would it be a game changer?  The VA already offers elective surgeries and recreational prescriptions.  As a federal body, there is no legal or legitimate way for them to fail to provide services to rightful vets on the basis of animus or even the personal beliefs or opinions of any given provider.  Getting access to things you couldn't otherwise afford..be it food and shelter, an education, travel, or medical expenses...is the number one driving force behind recruitment.  

In any case, there's this wonderful thing in the service called a soldiers right to fail, lol.  It's unrecognized and unofficial, but impossible to prevent.  Here's to hoping that they mysteriously fail to root out all those icky trans, just like they used to with all the icky gays....at least until we find an adult to sit at the big desk again.

I was not brave enough to serve, in fact, I washed out of Air Force basic. The physical training actually was not the worst part. But why I failed takes a couple of sentences of my childhood to understand. I was a sensitive kid being raised by two authoritarian teachers, whom while having the best intent, tried to toughen me up because they were kids of the WW2 era where boys don't cry. It also did not help that I had nothing but male bullies on my street. So by the time I signed up, I had had a lifetime of low self esteem. So from the very first morning at 5am stepping off the bus on the base, being yelled at until 10:30 at night it was like living on my street. I had no concept of what they were really trying to do. I blamed myself for every little thing and felt even worse when I could not preform the way they wanted me to.

So I look at it this way with LGBT serving, they are doing what I cold not, and if you are willing to risk a bullet or bomb for me, I think you damned sure deserve to have that surgery. The military is not there to protect a political party or a religion, but to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Most civilians don't do that in any case. Serving takes calm focus to face that kind of stress, and some people are simply not cut out to handle that. But for the people that do, they deserve our support while in and when they come home.

[Catholic_Lady]

Meh, I don't think it's right to tell a woman who feels uncomfortable with a naked biological male showering close to her own naked body that she just needs to "get over it" as though she's being petty or whatever.  

According to you all male to female transsexuals are 'biological males'. You seem to continue having this idea in mind that all of them are basically men in drag. You are a bigot solely because you refuse to accept any new information which would mean that you have to change how you perceive other segments of the population.

And while we're on the matter, I didn't want to bump the old thread where I was criticised for saying that we're all female in the womb and then some become male·due to expression of the Y chromosome and hormonal washes, but a link to this was posted to the thinking atheist soon after so I bookmarked it for the next time you use the whole 'biological male' thing to hang your entire argument on

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I never said anything about sexual assault. Maybe it's a women thing that men don't get, but many of us wouldn't feel comfortable being naked in front of another naked male body who is not our partner or our doctor. It's a privacy/embarrassment thing, not a fear of sexual assault thing.

Strawman argument. Who is suggesting that women have to shower with another male body?

Or do you have some kind of super power allowing you to read the DNA of every person that you meet? If so, how do you feel when you find yourself in a public shower with someone with an intersex condition such as Androgen insensitivity syndrome that people without your superpower would never realise?

If you look like a man and have male parts, I'm not going to feel comfortable with you seeing me naked unless you are my husband or my doctor. If youre going to shame me for feeling that, Mathilda, and if that makes me a bigot in your eyes, then so be it I suppose.

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Also, i'm sure I'm not the only women here who feels that way about being seen completely naked, but of course, no one else is going to say anything because they don't want to be labeled as bigoted transphobes by people like you.

[Shell B]

I'll say it. I don't feel comfortable with people seeing me completely naked. Usually, it doesn't matter if it's a guy or a girl, but I sometimes feel more comfortable with a woman, such as at the gyno and my urologist.

I have two points of contention here, though:

I'm pretty sure the military policy isn't to put non-transitioned male-to-female trans people in showers with biological females. This is just a guess, but I think it's a safe one. Therefore, I think this is an irrelevant argument.

My second point of contention is that, were I to join the military, I would be expected to undergo hardships of an extraordinary nature. Dicks would be the least of my concerns. A woman who would be too uncomfortable with a dick in a communal shower to be in the same room as said dick really shouldn't be in the military. Discomfort is sort of expected. Therefore, yes, I would expect a biological female in that situation to just deal with it. She is not a civilian. She is a soldier. You are a civilian. You have the luxury of avoiding things that make you uncomfortable. She does not and should not.

[Catholic_Lady]

I agree with this, shell. I did not make the shower argument, and actually stated that i dont agree with it as a valid argument against trans in the military. My subsequent posts were merely responding to the people who gave me crap for saying I don't blame any woman for not feeling comfortable in that situation because I also wouldn't. It's my body. I shouldn't be shamed by other people for not wanting to show it's naked self to absolutely anyone.

[Shell B]

Yeah, there's no shame in being modest. No shame in being immodest, either. it's your body.

[Brian37]

I want to see 45 and the GOP face this person face to face and tell them they have to go. FUCKING COWARDS!

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-...EQ.twitter

[Jesster]

As far as the "seeing you naked" thing, I had to be naked around a bunch of men every day when I was in military basic training. I had to stay absolutely silent about my extreme discomfort because coming out would mean termination from the military. I'm not going to argue that point into the ground because I won't pretend that isn't an issue worth considering on the other side as well. I'm just pointing out my lack of shock at the one-way empathy here yet again.

Edit: I realize you weren't making this issue entirely one-sided Shell B. I'll add that before this becomes an issue.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Obama Policy for 2-terms: No Trans in Military (crickets)*
Trump Policy: No Trans in Military (OUTRAGE and HYSTERIA!)

(* but he did change the policy so it would take effect after he was out of office when he wouldn't have to deal with the consequences...so brave of him, not)

[Shell B]

I think the majority of the posters here have empathy for both sides of the spectrum. The shower thing was only brought up in the eyes of a bio female. Therefore, that was what is being discussed. I can understand that nudity can be uncomfortable for people in all sorts of mixed situations. I wouldn't even be comfortable showering with another woman, whether I knew her or not. My comment about just kind of dealing with shit like that in the military stands, though. If that's too much for a person, they don't belong in the military. Clearly, it wasn't too much for you, Jesster. You stuck it out, and thank you for that. I wish you had been able to come out without any issues, but you'd have still had to shower with the guys or girls.

Edit: Not an issue, even before your edit. Just a conversation.