If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?

[The Grand Nudger]

By any logical standard if there was any evidence for the existence of god, that would make faith irrelevant.

That faith is needed in the religious community reasonably means that zero evidence is in existence to prove god is real.

Cause it is faith in God, not faith without reason.  Even those who where their talked about their faith.  Why would that be?

I know more than one person who holds their faith in god with no reason, or even in the face of reason.  These people are, to a man, shining exemplars that the rest of you fail by comparison to.  It's amusing, to me at least, that I respect these people, I don't give them an ounce of shit.  The rest of you get nothing but the contempt borne of disappointment and failure.

They possess faith and integrity, you..apparently, had to choose between the two.

[SteveII]

By any logical standard if there was any evidence for the existence of god, that would make faith irrelevant.

That faith is needed in the religious community reasonably means that zero evidence is in existence to prove god is real.

IMO, I think the conclusion does not follow from the premise because a Christian does not have to have faith that God exists. That God exists can be known. Rather we are called to have faith that Jesus Christ can/will/does provide atonement for our sins if we ask and in his other promises related to the Christian life.

[The Grand Nudger]

Magic book disagrees...but, ofc, that's never been a problem for the faithful™. That story and that god take a back seat to your desire for righteous condemnation. The devil himself could have done no better.



Why is it that all we ever get around here are fake christians addicted to the false surety offered by a paradigm that rejects their god?

[Minimalist]

Maybe that's all there are?

[The Grand Nudger]

I know, for a fact, it isn't. I'm surrounded by christians that defy christian stereotypes as easily as atheists defy the stereotypes foisted upon them by putative christians. That's -why- it seems so strange to me, that we get the "christians" that we do, round hur. The only christians I bother with don't bother to hate on the gays, they don;t have time for creationism, they don't demean themselves or their god by lying about their faith or the evidence or it. They're brotherhood of man types, friends of the poor...from whose lips the word "taker" will never fall. Missionaries that never handed out a single bible..only food and shelter and labor. Carter Christians and true Red Letter believers, lol.

[Astonished]

By any logical standard if there was any evidence for the existence of god, that would make faith irrelevant.

That faith is needed in the religious community reasonably means that zero evidence is in existence to prove god is real.

IMO, I think the conclusion does not follow from the premise because a Christian does not have to have faith that God exists. That God exists can be known. Rather we are called to have faith that Jesus Christ can/will/does provide atonement for our sins if we ask and in his other promises related to the Christian life.

If that god comes down and kisses each and every one of our asses, apologizing profusely for being the one who set up the bullshit condemnation for creating us with that nature he could have just as easily not instilled in us, then your last sentence doesn't make you look like a fucking piece of shit. Otherwise...eat a dick. Any god who would withhold love or knowledge or anything important like that, for any reason, is not a good god. Period. Fuck you for not being willing to acknowledge that.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, let's not be hasty, if all god could honestly do is come down and say "Yeah...so, I did all of that shit" then it;s understandable why that god would be ashamed and silent.   Any thinking and moral thing would be, and we all make mistakes.  Maybe djinn god threw in the towel after it realized it was a base fuckup?  Might explain why it's not splitting the moon in half anymore. It has a long memory of things not going according the the plan™.

Besides, we seem to be doing better than it ever had prescience to teach us, so why would it interfere when things were finally beginning to improve.....if it were a good god?

[Minimalist]

I know, for a fact, it isn't.  I'm surrounded by christians that defy christian stereotypes as easily as atheists defy the stereotypes foisted upon them by putative christians.  That's -why- it seems so strange to me, that we get the "christians" that we do, round hur.  The only christians I bother with don't bother to hate on the gays, they don;t have time for creationism, they don't demean themselves or their god by lying about their faith or the evidence or it.  They're brotherhood of man types, friends of the poor...from whose lips the word "taker" will never fall.  Missionaries that never handed out a single bible..only food and shelter and labor.  Carter Christians and true Red Letter believers, lol.

I've never seen one of them.  I be less surprised to see a unicorn.

[The Grand Nudger]

I came from and married into a family of them.  You never hear about them, because they aren't loadmouthed pieces of shit. A faith privately and strongly held, that leads them to do the right thing, no matter what the rest of the fakers are doing at any given moment. Sure, I still think that their faith is petty and fundamentally evil, but they understand that and don't begrudge me for it (that's the litmus test, for me - that they can understand even if they don't agree). If this were the norm, rather than an educated rarity, I doubt we'd find as much reason to be rid of them. They'd be the divine equivalent of tea leaf readers. Harmless, quaint, helpful, and genuinely decent.

What we get here, though, is an endless parade of liars for christ. All that any of them are missing is a plea for money...and they'd do that, too, if they had an ounce of self confidence in their ability to deliver "gods message".

[Astonished]

I came from and married into a family of them.  You never hear about them, because they aren't loadmouthed pieces of shit.  A faith privately and strongly held, that leads them to do the right thing, no matter what the rest of the fakers are doing at any given moment.  Sure, I still think that their faith is petty and fundamentally evil, but they understand that and don't begrudge me for it (that's the litmus test, for me - that they can understand even if they don't agree).  If this were the norm, rather than an educated rarity, I doubt we'd find as much reason to be rid of them.  They'd be the divine equivalent of tea leaf readers.  Harmless, quaint, helpful, and genuinely decent.

What we get here, though, is an endless parade of liars for christ.

Still doesn't mean they aren't holding open the door for irrationality. Ticking time bombs one and all. Fuck 'em.