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(November 23, 2010 at 3:10 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Since you have not scientifically surveyed the majority of Christians on Earth, you yourself are using anecdotal evidence to bash on Christians for using anecdotal evidence? Nice! I’d expect nothing less of you.
It is not necessary to survey "the majority of Christians on Earth" to make this determination. Haven't you ever heard of polls? They survey a representative sample of a population to determine public opinion. They don't attempt to talk to a majority of the people.
I have had discussions with many, many Christians and I would definitely say the majority revert to anecdotal evidence when trying to prove that god truly exists. Whether it's an unverifiable "miracle", a tale of an incredible coincidence, a dream, seeing a flash of light, "feeling" god's presence, or hearing a voice, anecdotal evidence is a staple of their arguments. In fact, I'd say it's rather unusual to argue god's existence with a Christian and NOT have them bring up some sort of anecdotal evidence.
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
(November 23, 2010 at 3:23 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Did gravity not exist 3000 years ago because nobody had theorized a way to test for it?
Indeed, three thousand years ago everyone just levitated around feeling nothing under their feet, wondering how this theoretical thing called gravity, said to be able to bring them down to earth, might be tested.
(November 23, 2010 at 3:23 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:
(November 23, 2010 at 3:12 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: If something exists then there should be a way to test for it.
There may be life on worlds in other solar systems.
We dont know if this is true and we cant test for it now, but we can theorise on ways to get this information.
If we cant even theorise on ways to test for something then its a good sign that it does not exist
According to whom? Did gravity not exist 3000 years ago because nobody had theorized a way to test for it? I am thinking it did.
True.
But there were older theories of gravity, most famously aristotles theory which predicted that the heavier of two pbjects would fall the fastest.
This was refuted by galileo who dropped a ball and a feather off the leaning tower of piza (mmmm Piza).
So it wasnt that no one had noticed it and Newton went 'what was that' its just that the older theories were less focused not worked out mathmatically and wrong.
Is your point that there will someday be a test for god?
November 23, 2010 at 4:03 pm (This post was last modified: November 23, 2010 at 4:34 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(November 23, 2010 at 3:42 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(November 23, 2010 at 3:23 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:
(November 23, 2010 at 3:12 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: If something exists then there should be a way to test for it.
There may be life on worlds in other solar systems.
We dont know if this is true and we cant test for it now, but we can theorise on ways to get this information.
If we cant even theorise on ways to test for something then its a good sign that it does not exist
According to whom? Did gravity not exist 3000 years ago because nobody had theorized a way to test for it? I am thinking it did.
True.
But there were older theories of gravity, most famously aristotles theory which predicted that the heavier of two pbjects would fall the fastest.
This was refuted by galileo who dropped a ball and a feather off the leaning tower of piza (mmmm Piza).
So it wasnt that no one had noticed it and Newton went 'what was that' its just that the older theories were less focused not worked out mathmatically and wrong.
Is your point that there will someday be a test for god?
I wont hold my breathe.
Actually, this is beyond ridiculous. While no one in the early iron age may have theorized a modern theory of gravity, everyone 3000 years ago who declines to jump off a cliff has theorized a 1000 BC theory of things falling down, which they put to daily and fairly rigourous test by emptying their chamber pots out their window, hopefully onto the heads of the 1000 BC equivalent of Statler.
(November 23, 2010 at 3:10 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:
(November 23, 2010 at 12:25 pm)orogenicman Wrote: orogenicman Wrote:
And I never claimed that you did. However, most Christians DO use anecdotal evidence to argue for the existence of their god. I hear them use such 'evidence' every day. Your quote of Shermer points out that:
Since you have not scientifically surveyed the majority of Christians on Earth, you yourself are using anecdotal evidence to bash on Christians for using anecdotal evidence? Nice! I’d expect nothing less of you.
But then, I'm not making a scientific claim in this regards. It was based on 52 years of experience dealing with Christians, including those within my own family. But I do note that you don't deny that it's true that Christians use testimonials (i.e., 'my aunt Betzy was cured of cancer after our congregation prayed for her') to bring people into the fold.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
(November 23, 2010 at 3:12 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: If we cant even theorise on ways to test for something then its a good sign that it does not exist
Its easy to make a test for God.
Stand on a hill in the middle of lightning storm shouting "God is a bastard". If you get struck by lightning then its... probably just your own stupid fault for standing on a hill in a lightning storm.
A finite number of monkeys with a finite number of typewriters and a finite amount of time could eventually reproduce 4chan.
November 24, 2010 at 9:12 am (This post was last modified: November 24, 2010 at 9:31 am by rjh4 is back.)
(November 19, 2010 at 6:28 am)Arcanus Wrote: Since I get a lot of emails every week, could you refresh my memory as to who you are (name or email address)? I do my best to stay on top of my email discussions and answer every question, but some can and do get missed. I'm pretty sure I've answered all the creationism emails I've been receiving, but it's possible I've dropped yours somehow.
Arcanus,
I resent the e-mail that you previously did not answer along with another a couple of days ago. Is your e-mail working?
(November 23, 2010 at 3:42 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: This was refuted by galileo who dropped a ball and a feather off the leaning tower of piza (mmmm Piza).
I looked this up. Apparently, at least some think Galileo didn't actually perform any such experiment. Furthermore, from what I could find any such experiment was with two balls (cannon and wooden) anyway, not a ball and a feather. I would think that if one did the experiment (dropping two objects from the tower of Pisa) with a ball (say a baseball) and a feather, the ball would reach the ground first (and significantly faster). I think the wind resistance would cause the feather to reach its terminal velocity quicker than the baseball and would have a slower terminal velocity than the baseball. To properly perform the experiment, one would have to do it in a vacuum. In one of the websites I found there was a video of a hammer and a feather being dropped on the moon.
(November 23, 2010 at 3:23 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: According to whom? Did gravity not exist 3000 years ago because nobody had theorized a way to test for it? I am thinking it did.
I'm not sure whether it is the individual, or the failure of the education system that produced the individual, which is to blame for such ignorance and poor argumentation. Are you a disciple of "Dr" Kent Hovind the well known "science teacher" by any chance?
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
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