Irony

[Cyberman]

No, it's not just a difference of opinion. Talking to a floor, or a wall, or a ceiling, and pretending that someone is listening is delusional. Especially since you have to rationalise it away as working on similar principles to iphones. Writing letters to Santa and putting them up the chimney has the same effect - placating the innocent and the credulous with platitudes of influence.

For instance, what does this someone say that demonstrates that it can hear you? What makes you think there's even a someone there at all?

It is; Stimbo. You get to believe what you want; as long as it doesn't hurt anybody. I own my mind and believe it's a right for every human too to own theirs.
You never see God. But you feel it inside you. He guides you if he wants. You never hear a thing or see a thing; but you feel.

Now you're being silly.

[WinterHold]

It is; Stimbo. You get to believe what you want; as long as it doesn't hurt anybody. I own my mind and believe it's a right for every human too to own theirs.
You never see God. But you feel it inside you. He guides you if he wants. You never hear a thing or see a thing; but you feel.

Now you're being silly.

Not at all. The problem always begins when somebody becomes too full of themselves and too full of their belief; then despising others for their faiths, and glorifying the self to the level of narcissism becomes the rule of the day. I have to say: that it the silly thing. Not being capable of picturing yourself in another person's shoes. If Muslims knew that they could be born in an atheist family, or Christians knew they could've been born in a Hindu house, or white supremacists knew they could've been born black; things would've differed a lot.

Putting my head on the floor, keeps me away from disgusting ego; even if it was for a few minutes. Admitting that even mosquitoes can bring down an elephant.

[Cyberman]

So it's nothing like an iphone, then? Why couldn't you just say that before and save all this time?

[Cyberman]

Telephone technology uses complex electronics, materials technology and - yes - relativity theory. Floor technology, unless I haven't kept up with developments, tends to be more wood and concrete based. Other than "it just works", what are the points of similarity between iphones and prayers?

The concept of phone is that sound waves can be transferred over a physical medium, with mobiles we knew it can be transferred through thin air, with computers we combined the previous two; and were even able to add a live broadcast.

If humans can do this with these limited resources, why won't a God be able to listen to the sound waves I make; transferred through everything in between as a medium of movement? in other words; some day we might see exactly that this is so possible. The ancients made the mistake of underestimating the future and what it might bring; it's a trap I don't want to fall in.

Sorry, I just went through this again and apart from being a huge argument from ignorance, this is a grievous burden of proof shift attempt. It's not incumbent on me to show how or why this is not possible, or even probable. Nor does god, miracles, or whatever become the answer in the absence of any other.

[WinterHold]

The concept of phone is that sound waves can be transferred over a physical medium, with mobiles we knew it can be transferred through thin air, with computers we combined the previous two; and were even able to add a live broadcast.

If humans can do this with these limited resources, why won't a God be able to listen to the sound waves I make; transferred through everything in between as a medium of movement?  in other words; some day we might see exactly that this is so possible. The ancients made the mistake of underestimating the future and what it might bring; it's a trap I don't want to fall in.

Sorry, I just went through this again and apart from being a huge argument from ignorance, this is a grievous burden of proof shift attempt. It's not incumbent on me to show how or why this is not possible, or even probable. Nor does god, miracles, or whatever become the answer in the absence of any other.

I can't agree that it's an argument from ignorance. To me; God is a " true ", it's not something to doubt; but the only possible outcome, because the design of the universe shows that.
Tracking every effect leads to a cause. And I think Islam presents the real cause behind what we're in.

That's why I wrote it's a matter of opinion. Eventually, some will belief and others won't. But I saw enough in my life to be sure something is out there, it's not an unknowable; it's a fact dictated by the design. Cause and effect.

[Cyberman]

What you think doesn't matter. What you can demonstrate, does.

[WinterHold]

What you think doesn't matter. What you can demonstrate, does.

This is the basis of personal freedom. God can take care of his own business; what I think matters only to me.
It's the banana peel missionaries fall because: many think they have the power to convince, or the duty to do so, like God is handicapped or something. In terms of demonstration; he did demonstrate though; or so is my opinion.

[Astonished]

Everything you do to describe your god demonstrates its utter impotence, as if it's the short bus version of every other proposed deity, handicapped as all fuck. It can't speak for itself, it can't supervise its creation properly, it can't even leave a stamp on creation to make it look created, it lets people drag its name through the mud, it lets itself get cuckolded by other gods regularly, and its threats are as floppy and flaccid as your words.

[WinterHold]

Everything you do to describe your god demonstrates its utter impotence, as if it's the short bus version of every other proposed deity, handicapped as all fuck. It can't speak for itself, it can't supervise its creation properly, it can't even leave a stamp on creation to make it look created, it lets people drag its name through the mud, it lets itself get cuckolded by other gods regularly, and its threats are as floppy and flaccid as your words.

"The telling" about God has 2 forms:

1-The form that there's an epic battle where angels are clashing light swords with demons; with lots of mini Satans falling from the sky; and this soundtrack playing in the background:






Ancient Greeks for example, loved this way; demonstrated in the tales of Titans vs Olympus Gods like Zeus.
I'm not a big fan of this way; I never believe in it, I think it's comical video-games, and the person who believe in it is a person who agreed to be an idiot. Missionaries of different faiths love it because it's shiny, and children adore it. Even grown up people sometimes. Awesome bedtime stories. But once you face real life; they evaporate, and you end up like the Greeks or the Ancient Egyptians.

2-The form that everything is already over; and our lives are just an echo of execution in the domain of a God, knowing exactly what we did before he even create us. So in other words; there is no battle between "him and evil"; he created evil and good; the battle is between "us" and the devil, us.

Satan knows he screwed for what he did to Adam and Eve; but he's one arrogant sick fella.. The devil exists because God made him; but he chose this path; he was angel after all; and we exist because God made us too.There is no "battle in the sky"; God is already victorious before he even creates evil.

I believe in the second. That's my faith; and that's how I translate this verse from the Quran:

Sura 57, The Quran:
( 22 )   No disaster strikes upon the earth or among yourselves except that it is in a register before We bring it into being - indeed that, for Allah, is easy -

The battle is over before it even starts. That's how I translate the above, obvious verse.

I care not about sad missionaries who cause you to hate religion, it is their fault not God's, they have an OCD and stress issues to convert others and grow their numbers. Usually; theories like the Rapture or the coming of Mehdi is the belief that is behind it all, and they consider themselves responsible for "growing the numbers of the Army of God".

In other words; more like a "draft", and when the numbers are big enough; shit hits the fan. Boom; crusade; or boom; inquisition; or boom; what happens in Iraq with Shiites booming the shit out of Sunnies, or Sunnies booming the shit out of Shiites (ISIS style).

That is the handicapped God.
A capable God on the other hand; knows everything before it's even created.

[Astonished]

In what way does any of that convey anything of any relevance to anything at all? Let alone prove any god is real?