Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: Excuse your God
October 23, 2017 at 11:03 pm
(October 23, 2017 at 10:04 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (October 23, 2017 at 9:53 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You know, MK...for something to be an argument..there are standards. It's silly to call whatever profession of faith catches your fancy an argument.
An argument just has to prove something to be true to be a good argument. Any other standards we make are arbitrary.
Please explain your "proof."
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 8214
Threads: 394
Joined: November 2, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: Excuse your God
October 23, 2017 at 11:04 pm
(October 23, 2017 at 11:03 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (October 23, 2017 at 10:04 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: An argument just has to prove something to be true to be a good argument. Any other standards we make are arbitrary.
Please explain your "proof."
Regarding what?
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Excuse your God
October 24, 2017 at 6:41 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2017 at 6:43 am by Cyberman.)
(October 23, 2017 at 10:04 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (October 23, 2017 at 9:53 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You know, MK...for something to be an argument..there are standards. It's silly to call whatever profession of faith catches your fancy an argument.
An argument just has to prove something to be true to be a good argument. Any other standards we make are arbitrary.
Well, that's convenient for us. By that standard, zero god arguments are good ones. They all reduce to "if [insert god here] doesn't exist, this argument doesn't work. Therefore it must exist".
Put another way, there are no arguments for the existence of gods; only arguments trying to prove that the arguments work.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 7568
Threads: 20
Joined: July 26, 2013
Reputation:
54
RE: Excuse your God
October 24, 2017 at 7:02 am
(October 24, 2017 at 6:41 am)Cyberman Wrote: (October 23, 2017 at 10:04 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: An argument just has to prove something to be true to be a good argument. Any other standards we make are arbitrary.
Well, that's convenient for us. By that standard, zero god arguments are good ones. They all reduce to "if [insert god here] doesn't exist, this argument doesn't work. Therefore it must exist".
Put another way, there are no arguments for the existence of gods; only arguments trying to prove that the arguments work.
To wit: just look at the dismal trajectory of recent Christian apologetics. The game now is to develop a ‘cumulative’ case for God’s existence or, even more minimally, to argue that god belief isn’t irrational in its face.
Poor MK is trying to assert the reasonableness of centuries-old horseshit with 19th Century apologists’ tools — tools that came to be seen as passé a long time ago. He should tear a page out of the Protestant playbook and set his sights much lower. Allah may not approve, but Jesus would understand.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Excuse your God
October 24, 2017 at 7:06 am
If my god doesn't exist, I wouldn't be trying to prove it does.
This is a logical argument intended to prove its existence.
Therefore my god exists.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 7568
Threads: 20
Joined: July 26, 2013
Reputation:
54
RE: Excuse your God
October 24, 2017 at 7:08 am
(October 24, 2017 at 7:06 am)Cyberman Wrote: If my god doesn't exist, I wouldn't be trying to prove it does.
This is a logical argument intended to prove its existence.
Therefore my god exists.
Logic tool kits really should come with warning labels and age advisories. People can get hurt from their misuse.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Excuse your God
October 24, 2017 at 7:14 am
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Clare Balding's looking a bit rough these days and is desperate to take any job thrown at her.
Therefore wishes are horses.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 7568
Threads: 20
Joined: July 26, 2013
Reputation:
54
RE: Excuse your God
October 24, 2017 at 7:22 am
(October 24, 2017 at 7:14 am)Cyberman Wrote: If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Clare Balding's looking a bit rough these days and is desperate to take any job thrown at her.
Therefore wishes are horses.
Sounds solid. Where do I send my prayer offering?
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Excuse your God
October 24, 2017 at 9:01 am
I'll send you my PayPal details.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 3634
Threads: 20
Joined: July 20, 2011
Reputation:
47
RE: Excuse your God
October 24, 2017 at 12:48 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2017 at 12:49 pm by Simon Moon.)
(October 23, 2017 at 9:24 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I find the witness argument the most convincing, but there are many arguments I haven't even present that are in Quran.
What sort of witness arguments are you referring to?
Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable. The amount of experiments that have been done to show how easy it is to fool people that they saw something they didn't, or miss something obvious they should have seen, are mountainous.
Quote:I am not convinced you guys are honest to yourselves or others. I am not convinced you don't know God exists. I am convinced you deceive yourselves and cover up sacred knowledge by superficial mask you mask yourself with and ignorance you hold on to with no rational reason.
Well, get over your beliefs about us. I am absolutely not convinced that gods exist.
My reasons for disbelieving in the existence of gods, is based entirely on rationality and reason. My disbelief in the existence of gods is a byproduct of critical thinking and skepticism.
YOu are the one that relies on witness accounts, ancient texts written by ignorant tribesmen, and flawed arguments, which is the definition of irrationality.
Quote:If I believe your doubt was rational, I would doubt God myself, but I don't believe it is.
My disbelief in the existence of gods is based on theists not living up to their burden of proof when they make their case for the existence of gods. Which is an entirely rational reason to disbelieve existential claims.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
|
