New atheist here, gotta say, not loving it

[Edwardo Piet]

I don't understand. How can you fear something that is identical to what it was like before your birth?

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No it's not! It's the LEAST scary thing when you think about it. For starters it's not even a thing! I couldn't think of anything less terrifying than nonexistence! Even happy times are scarier because something might go wrong! After you die there's literally nothing to be afraid of anymore. It's life that's scary. After death there can be nothing scarier for me than before death. I've NEVER feared death. Not even when I was a child. The suffering from dying is bad, but after I'm dead?  I don't care about my absence when I won't even be capable of missing it. I don't get it. If I didn't wake up tomorrow I literally wouldn't and couldn't give a shit. And if I was told by a doctor that I wouldn't wake up tomorrow, I'd be sad that I wouldn't get to experience joy anymore but I wouldn't have anything to be afraid of anymore either. It's only utterly terrifying if you don't actually think about it and you think about something else instead. Nonexistence can't be scary.

I don't find life scary.  Individual events?  Sure.  Mostly those that potentially involve physical pain (having 45 surgeries, and all of the various follow ups and rehab, starting from when you're only a few months old, conditions one to shy away from anything that could land them back in the hospital).  But, overall life ranges between boring to fun for me.

And the difference between the universe prior to my existence and now is that I do exist now.  And, outside of bouts of depression stemming from my guilt of the burden I impose on others due to my medical needs and care, I like existing.  And, most important, I'm aware I exist.  Having that awareness, being a unique individual, are important things for me.  And while death is inevitable, that doesn't mean I have to be content with the idea.  I don't think I'd want to be eternal, but a human lifespan is woefully inadequate for all the things I want to do, experience, and learn.

Finally, I came this close to ripping you a new one.  Your habit of replying to others with "You only think/believe that because you're stupid (implied or explicitly stated)!  You wouldn't feel that way or believe that thing if you actually thought about it!" is wearing incredibly thin.  You're a smart guy, but that doesn't give you license to jump on someone merely for expressing their feelings.

I'm pretty sure that's not how you intended things (which is why I held back), but it's something I think you should be aware of.

Oh dear. If your ego is so big that you take offense at my own opinion that you don't understand something because you take that as an insult to your ego or take that as me calling you "stupid" (when I don't think any such thing), then aren't you the one who should be ripped a new one for such hubris? Who cares if I think you don't understand something? What's wrong with that? What's wrong with not understanding things? I don't understand many things and I am sure there are many things you understand that I don't. And that doesn't make either of us stupid. But if I point out one thing that in my opinion you don't understand then I need ripping a new one? Shouldn't you be ripped one, if anyone should, for having such an oversensitive ego over something unimportant?

But yeah, I still don't think you get it, to be honest (sorry about being honest like that, but my intention was never to piss you off my intention was to participate in a discussion) . . . it makes sense to be sad if your life is going to end because you are going to miss out on life. But why do you think that you can't think of anything scarier than nonexistence when when it comes to nonexistence there's literally nothing to be afraid of if you really are thinking of nonexistence?

And yes, of course, when I say life is scary I mean that life is scary in general because it involves scary experiences. Of course we're not scared by 'life itself' otherwise we'd literally be afraid at every living moment.

Thanks for saying I'm a smart guy, you're a smart guy too, and it's okay for us to not understand things sometimes . . . it doesn't make us stupid and there's no need to get hurt over something that doesn't matter.

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I'm pretty sure that's not how you intended things (which is why I held back), but it's something I think you should be aware of.

I'm glad you recognize that it was not intended. But if you think that I can't point out that I think someone doesn't understand something sometimes without it being me implying that they're "stupid", then I'm offended. Imagine if science worked that way? Imagine if anytime a scientist offers an alternative new theory because they think the other scientist's explanations don't make sense of things fully the other scientists were like "Are you calling us stupid! Are you saying we're missing something! Are you saying maybe we don't understand! Are you saying our theory isn't good enough!" . . . that would be ridiculous of course.

There are many things I don't understand too. It's okay to understand things. And it's okay to think someone is missing the point. It's okay. And, in fact, things are better that way. Things are better when people don't take offence when someone corrects them. No one's perfect . . . that doesn't make us idiots.

[Lek]

It doesn't have anything to do with agnostics vs atheists.  It's simply my observation.  People have a fear of the unknown.   Belief in God has been around almost as long as humanity has and is woven into our prevailing worldview.

This is argument is terribly worded and executed. What you mean is, belief in magical deities have been around since time immemorial but belief in the Jewish God has only been around since 1500 BCE while the Judeo Christian God started in the 1st Century CE.

Ofcourse everyone fears the unknown and that's why magical explanations have been put forth as a comfort blanket. How is your reply above a good argument for the existence of your Juedeo Christian God since all beliefs in the different types of magical explanations can't all be right.

I don't understand how you can determine your's is right above all others, unless you've looked into every magical explanation which is nigh impossible in a single lifetime.

I wasn't making an argument for the existence of the Judeo-Christian God, but since you mentioned it, that God has been around from infinity.  He is the one who created the universe in which we exist.  He didn't just appear around 1500 BC.  My point in my post is that if a person has any belief that there might be a god, that belief will will be a factor in what he expects to experience after death.  It's impossible to totally ignore the possibility of an afterlife in that case.  If a person is totally convinced that there is no God, then he doesn't have that concern.

[Abaddon_ire]

This is argument is terribly worded and executed. What you mean is, belief in magical deities have been around since time immemorial but belief in the Jewish God has only been around since 1500 BCE while the Judeo Christian God started in the 1st Century CE.

Ofcourse everyone fears the unknown and that's why magical explanations have been put forth as a comfort blanket. How is your reply above a good argument for the existence of your Juedeo Christian God since all beliefs in the different types of magical explanations can't all be right.

I don't understand how you can determine your's is right above all others, unless you've looked into every magical explanation which is nigh impossible in a single lifetime.

I wasn't making an argument for the existence of the Judeo-Christian God, but since you mentioned it, that God has been around from infinity.  He didn't just appear around 1500 BC.  My point in my post is that if a person has any belief that there might be a god, that belief will will be a factor in what he expects to experience after death.  It's impossible to totally ignore the possibility of an afterlife in that case.  If a person is totally convinced that there is no God, then he doesn't have that concern.

So many lies in a single post.

"God has been around from infinity" Where the hell did that claim come from.

"He is the one who created the universe in which we exist" Nope. Where do you get that from?

"He didn't just appear around 1500 BC" Wow, you are unable to add.. Explain chinese history. That is a lot older. How about the Mingo people of Australia? 40 kya?

"My point in my post is that if a person has any belief that there might be a god, that belief will will be a factor in what he expects to experience after death.". That would be nothing.Disagree ? Feel free to share your experiences after you died.

"It's impossible to totally ignore the possibility of an afterlife in that case." No,it isn't. A moment's brief thought would elaborate that for you.

"If a person is totally convinced that there is no God, then he doesn't have that concern." And there you fall flat. I am an atheist. Do I claim there is no god? Nope.

[Simon Moon]

If he's afraid, it's probably because he's not 100% convinced of his atheism. In order to not fear death an atheist must be totally sure that there is no God.

I fear dying, I don't fear death. As Mark Twain once said, "I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it".

Also, you seem to be creating a false dichotomy here. Either 'there is no god', or the Christian god exists. Seems that many Christians need a reminder from time to time, atheists disbelieve in ALL gods.

Even if I am not '100% of my atheism' (that still does not make any sense), that does not mean I put the most probability in the Christian god existing.

Nor, does it mean, that if a god exists, does that mean that there is an afterlife, by default. There are quite a few god concepts that don't include an afterlife.

Otherwise there will always be the thought of the possibility of existence afterwards and if he has prepared himself for that possibility.

Is this a veiled version of Pascal's Wager?

The only afterlife I consider a possibility, is one where all religions were created by a god to test the gullibility of humans. Those of us that used our critical thinking skills, in order to come to the conclusion that none of them are supported by evidence and reasoned argument, get to go to the good afterlife.

[Lek]

Hey Lek, glad to have you back. Hope you've been doing well.

Thanks.  The last four months have been possibly the most significant time of my life.  Hope everyone here is doing well also - even Mini. (Joke)

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[quote='Lek' pid='1665417' dateline='1511912574']

No.  As long as I stay right with God those don't worry me.  It doesn't change my opinion that unless you're totally sure that there is no God, you will be concerned about death.

So you think 100% that you have the right god?

Don't you think that's mighty presumptuous, given that (very likely) you only believe in that god in particular because it's the one most people believe in, where you live?
Geography of birth is not a very trustworthy measure of accuracy of a belief system.

I believe in the one creator God, who created everything that exists.  Everyone who seeks him with a true heart will find him.  Who he is is not our image of him because he is not comprehensive to the human mind.  We only know him through his manifested attributes and his communication with us.  We can know of God, but have different images of him.  Nobody knows him completely.  I believe Jesus is Emmanuel or "God with us" as Isaiah prophesied because God communicated that to me.  I never stand pat, though, rather I stay open to God's leading, wherever that may take me in my belief.

[Amarok]

If he's afraid, it's probably because he's not 100% convinced of his atheism. In order to not fear death an atheist must be totally sure that there is no God.

This is a stupid comment 

1. It assumes an afterlife with a god is the only after life .And that an atheist would have nothing to fear but a gods wraith  

2. It's possible an atheist may simply be afraid of losing his life  .

Thus fear of death does not prove shit in regards to a belief in god .

[KevinM1]

I don't find life scary.  Individual events?  Sure.  Mostly those that potentially involve physical pain (having 45 surgeries, and all of the various follow ups and rehab, starting from when you're only a few months old, conditions one to shy away from anything that could land them back in the hospital).  But, overall life ranges between boring to fun for me.

And the difference between the universe prior to my existence and now is that I do exist now.  And, outside of bouts of depression stemming from my guilt of the burden I impose on others due to my medical needs and care, I like existing.  And, most important, I'm aware I exist.  Having that awareness, being a unique individual, are important things for me.  And while death is inevitable, that doesn't mean I have to be content with the idea.  I don't think I'd want to be eternal, but a human lifespan is woefully inadequate for all the things I want to do, experience, and learn.

Finally, I came this close to ripping you a new one.  Your habit of replying to others with "You only think/believe that because you're stupid (implied or explicitly stated)!  You wouldn't feel that way or believe that thing if you actually thought about it!" is wearing incredibly thin.  You're a smart guy, but that doesn't give you license to jump on someone merely for expressing their feelings.

I'm pretty sure that's not how you intended things (which is why I held back), but it's something I think you should be aware of.

Oh dear. If your ego is so big that you take offense at my own opinion that you don't understand something because you take that as an insult to your ego or take that as me calling you "stupid" (when I don't think any such thing), then aren't you the one who should be ripped a new one for such hubris? Who cares if I think you don't understand something? What's wrong with that? What's wrong with not understanding things? I don't understand many things and I am sure there are many things you understand that I don't. And that doesn't make either of us stupid. But if I point out one thing that in my opinion you don't understand then I need ripping a new one? Shouldn't you be ripped one, if anyone should, for having such an oversensitive ego over something unimportant?

But yeah, I still don't think you get it, to be honest (sorry about being honest like that, but my intention was never to piss you off my intention was to participate in a discussion) . . . it makes sense to be sad if your life is going to end because you are going to miss out on life. But why do you think that you can't think of anything scarier than nonexistence when when it comes to nonexistence there's literally nothing to be afraid of if you really are thinking of nonexistence?

And yes, of course, when I say life is scary I mean that life is scary in general because it involves scary experiences. Of course we're not scared by 'life itself' otherwise we'd literally be afraid at every living moment.

Thanks for saying I'm a smart guy, you're a smart guy too, and it's okay for us to not understand things sometimes . . . it doesn't make us stupid and there's no need to get hurt over something that doesn't matter.

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I'm pretty sure that's not how you intended things (which is why I held back), but it's something I think you should be aware of.

I'm glad you recognize that it was not intended. But if you think that I can't point out that I think someone doesn't understand something sometimes without it being me implying that they're "stupid", then I'm offended. Imagine if science worked that way? Imagine if anytime a scientist offers an alternative new theory because they think the other scientist's explanations don't make sense of things fully the other scientists were like "Are you calling us stupid! Are you saying we're missing something! Are you saying maybe we don't understand! Are you saying our theory isn't good enough!" . . . that would be ridiculous of course.

There are many things I don't understand too. It's okay to understand things. And it's okay to think someone is missing the point. It's okay. And, in fact, things are better that way. Things are better when people don't take offence when someone corrects them. No one's perfect . . . that doesn't make us idiots.

Hammy, there's a huge difference between saying:

"I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from... could you please clarify?"

and:

"What you're feeling isn't legitimate! If you actually thought about what you're feeling, you'd know that!"

Shit, even something like:

"Huh, interesting. I've never been afraid of death. I don't really see what there is to be afraid of." Like how Fireball responded (you'll notice that I had no problem with their response) would've been fine.

It's not about my ego, but how you communicate with others. Communication is important. Tact is important. Why? Because people aren't just rational creatures, we're also emotional ones. And when a response to someone saying "this particular thing terrifies me" is essentially yelling (a few all capitalized words and many exclamation points) at the person that their feelings are wrong (lol, wut?) and that despite their claim of thinking about it they obviously didn't think about it hard enough, or well enough, then, yeah, expect the person on the other end to get pissed off.

I don't believe I'm being unfair about this.