George Takei (original Star Trek Sulu) Accused of Sexual Assault

[Brian37]

We know false accusations do happen. The big question is not whether it happens, or how often. Wikipedia's page on false rape accusations includes several studies on the phoenomenon and they vary wildly on how often it happens (and I mean fro 1.5% to 90% wildly). That said, they tend to skew towards the less common.

My own personal guess: the biggest study of the phoenomenon was by the British Home Office in 2005, and they concluded that 67 out of the 2643 cases they studied were possible or probable false allegations. Meanwhile, RAINN estimates 321,500 people are sexually assaulted per year. They also estimate only 341 cases out of 1000 will report what happened to the police. All three statistics, for reasons inherent in the nature of the offense, are very difficult to get a handle on, but it would seem they are reliable.

So, we take the math and come up with a number.
321500*.341*(67/2643)=2779 cases per year. (7.608 per day)

Needless to say, this is a drop in the bucket compared to the rapes that actually happen, but there's still a bit more than 15 people every two days who get falsely accused.

Yes, we have failed victims in the past; Yes, it's usually a safe bet that the people who come forward are telling the truth; But this doesn't justify going to the opposite extreme because that will also end up in innocent people having their lives ruined.

Look at the evidence, wait for more, and see where it takes us. He could be innocent, he could be the gay Asian Bill Cosby. Jumping to conclusions does nobody any good. If anyone here hasn't watched 12 Angry Men, I would highly recommend you do. There's lots of clips of the 1957 film on Youtube (and even the whole thing through a paywall), as well as the original 1954 teleplay, and even a couple stage productions, but whichever one you watch, the idea will be the same: there's only one way to figure out the truth - by investigating.

And, as Brian37 said, convicting someone while there's still room for reasonable doubt (even if it's just the court of public opinion) is a horrible thing, even if it's for the most horrible offenses. Once we stop caring about that, it's no longer a matter of justice, but human sacrifice.

The most famous case I can think of of an over zealous society was back in the 80s, 12 daycare workers were accused of molestation and satanism and all sorts of things. 3 of them were convicted, but the accusations hurt those who didn't do it, and even with the convicted years later, the kids recanted their accusations. The problem with not getting it right the first time based on fact, is that if too much of the process is based on zeal and emotion, even when you do charge the right people, it can undermine the ability to make the charges stick with no chance of reversal on appeal.

Everyone wants the criminals to be charged and put away, but it does no good for the long term freedom of all to convict on emotions.

[Pat Mustard]

They go both ways.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-...-1.3552018

Number of women accusing Catholic priest of sexual abuse rises to 23

Plus with girls, they can sell the babies if they've no defects.

[Rev. Rye]

Guy goes to Takei's house for drinks, doesn't feel well, possible passes out, wakes up to "unwanted touching", tells Takai so, and Takei says..."OK, fine" and worried he might be too drunk to drive home, but the guy just goes out and waits until he feels well enough to drive home, then drives home.  His own words are that when he said "no", Takei's response was to say"Ok fine" and stop. 

I'm sorry, but getting groped one time on a date is not sexual harassment.  When you say "no" and continue to get groped, THAT is sexual misconduct, but when the guy said no, he admits Takei stopped.  That's just...dating. Not every unwanted advance is misconduct.  People make advances to find out if they are further wanted.

Yeah, looking at the testimony, it seems like that's what happened. Takei made a pass at a guy, is told to stop, and promptly does so. This strikes me as a misstep, but not full-blown misconduct (though it's possible some other guys might come out with stories where he didn't stop). If making a pass at someone AND STOPPING AS SOON AS THEY OBJECT (which, as I understand it, is the right thing to do in such a situation) counts as sexual misconduct, well, it's shit like that that makes me wonder if I should just stop bothering with flesh-and-blood women and just get a Realdoll, and if you're worried that I'm starting to sound like an MRA, don't worry, that's only a sign you are still sane.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

It's all about the money with these folks, there's probably hundreds of cases like these, most never even coming to light because the perpetrator probably convince the victim to drop it by offering a huge sum of money. If this was a ordinary situation it would make sense to comment but when people get super rich they live a lifestyle we cannot even comprehend..

[The Industrial Atheist]

Guy goes to Takei's house for drinks, doesn't feel well, possible passes out, wakes up to "unwanted touching", tells Takai so, and Takei says..."OK, fine" and worried he might be too drunk to drive home, but the guy just goes out and waits until he feels well enough to drive home, then drives home.  His own words are that when he said "no", Takei's response was to say"Ok fine" and stop. 

I'm sorry, but getting groped one time on a date is not sexual harassment.  When you say "no" and continue to get groped, THAT is sexual misconduct, but when the guy said no, he admits Takei stopped.  That's just...dating. Not every unwanted advance is misconduct.  People make advances to find out if they are further wanted.

Yeah, looking at the testimony, it seems like that's what happened. Takei made a pass at a guy, is told to stop, and promptly does so. This strikes me as a misstep, but not full-blown misconduct (though it's possible some other guys might come out with stories where he didn't stop). If making a pass at someone AND STOPPING AS SOON AS THEY OBJECT (which, as I understand it, is the right thing to do in such a situation) counts as sexual misconduct, well, it's shit like that that makes me wonder if I should just stop bothering with flesh-and-blood women and just get a Realdoll, and if you're worried that I'm starting to sound like an MRA, don't worry, that's only a sign you are still sane.

Thing is, the way I read it Brunton was passed out and woke up with Takei already groping him. So that's a big no-no. Whether it really happened like that, or happened at all, I have no idea.

[Tiberius]

So, am I misreading the accusation, or does this sounds like it's not even sexual misconduct even if it did happen?

Guy goes to Takei's house for drinks, doesn't feel well, possible passes out, wakes up to "unwanted touching", tells Takai so, and Takei says..."OK, fine" and worried he might be too drunk to drive home, but the guy just goes out and waits until he feels well enough to drive home, then drives home.  His own words are that when he said "no", Takei's response was to say"Ok fine" and stop. 

I'm sorry, but getting groped one time on a date is not sexual harassment.  When you say "no" and continue to get groped, THAT is sexual misconduct, but when the guy said no, he admits Takei stopped.  That's just...dating. Not every unwanted advance is misconduct.  People make advances to find out if they are further wanted.

I know he says he passed out for a little bit, but this is one of the reasons drinking is such an issue.  You can be unaware as a drunk, and still seem conscious to others.  Blackouts.  It's a real thing.  There are definite grey areas in the drinking/sexual misconduct area, and this seems like one of them.

Am I wrong, here?

(also, unlike many other recent accusation, this one has not been followed by ANY others.  I don't think the fellow is lying, I just think he's mistaking a drunken sexual pass as misconduct)

IMO, "unwanted touching" is most definitely sexual misconduct, in the broad sense of the term. If the guy is passed out, he can't consent. Just because Takei stopped when the guy woke up and said something doesn't negate the fact that Takei initiated something sexual without consent.

It's not sexual harassment if it was one time, that I agree with.

I would also say that one accusation isn't enough to really form any kind of persuasive argument for or against someone. If more people came forward, it certainly adds to the credibility of the claim.

[Tiberius]

. What is anyone to think of an accusation which allegedly occurred decades ago and for which there is no corroborating evidence?

Well...

It's kinda hard to tell if he's joking around there. Takei seems like he speaks in sexual innuendos, so it seems kinda in line with his "character" that when asked "have you ever grabbed someone by the cock" he'd try and turn it into an "Oh my..." joke.

That said, there is an air of awkwardness to the clip.

[Brian37]

Well...

It's kinda hard to tell if he's joking around there. Takei seems like he speaks in sexual innuendos, so it seems kinda in line with his "character" that when asked "have you ever grabbed someone by the cock" he'd try and turn it into an "Oh my..." joke.

That said, there is an air of awkwardness to the clip.

I joked on many a job, the same way, with BOTH females and males at the restaurants I worked at.

If I saw a male co worker slicing potatos I would suddenly run up to them, and in a creepy voice joke, "Can I play with your potatos?"

If a female worker were slicing strawberries I would say, "Can I play with your strawberries".

There is a huge difference between making a pass at someone, being told no, and backing off, and even merely making a joke.

[Tiberius]

Well I wasn't really talking about that kind of joking, I was talking about his reaction to being asked whether he ever grabbed people by the cock. I'm not sure whether his response is serious, as in he isn't denying it, or a joke because that's his character (endless sexual innuendo).

[Aroura]

So, am I misreading the accusation, or does this sounds like it's not even sexual misconduct even if it did happen?

Guy goes to Takei's house for drinks, doesn't feel well, possible passes out, wakes up to "unwanted touching", tells Takai so, and Takei says..."OK, fine" and worried he might be too drunk to drive home, but the guy just goes out and waits until he feels well enough to drive home, then drives home.  His own words are that when he said "no", Takei's response was to say"Ok fine" and stop. 

I'm sorry, but getting groped one time on a date is not sexual harassment.  When you say "no" and continue to get groped, THAT is sexual misconduct, but when the guy said no, he admits Takei stopped.  That's just...dating. Not every unwanted advance is misconduct.  People make advances to find out if they are further wanted.

I know he says he passed out for a little bit, but this is one of the reasons drinking is such an issue.  You can be unaware as a drunk, and still seem conscious to others.  Blackouts.  It's a real thing.  There are definite grey areas in the drinking/sexual misconduct area, and this seems like one of them.

Am I wrong, here?

(also, unlike many other recent accusation, this one has not been followed by ANY others.  I don't think the fellow is lying, I just think he's mistaking a drunken sexual pass as misconduct)

IMO, "unwanted touching" is most definitely sexual misconduct, in the broad sense of the term. If the guy is passed out, he can't consent. Just because Takei stopped when the guy woke up and said something doesn't negate the fact that Takei initiated something sexual without consent.

It's not sexual harassment if it was one time, that I agree with.

I would also say that one accusation isn't enough to really form any kind of persuasive argument for or against someone. If more people came forward, it certainly adds to the credibility of the claim.

I admit I kinda glossed over the passing out part, because the guy even seems unsure of that in his own story.  
And like I said, blacking out is a thing.  Just because a person does not recall an event after drinking does not make them unconscious.  People walk, talk, respond to others, and then don't remember it.  It isn't movie drama, it really happens to people.
The way he phrased stuff that happened, it sounds more like that to me than like, head lolling unconsciousness.

I'm just totally guessing here, I admit.  This just seems different to me than the recent stream of sexual stuff by other famous people.  It could turn out that I'm waaaay wrong, and will admit it if that turns out to be the case.