What religion and religious leaders did to us.....

[Mystic]

What religion and religious leaders did to us was wrong.

They indoctrinated us instead of pushing us to see and reflect and to know wisdom by wisdom.

Almost every parent called their children to loyalty to some group with some leaders not appointed by God and all that got mixed up with the leaders appointed by God who are just special in name while in practice, it's the fallible non-appointed leaders who are followed.

They pushed us to testify to a religion in ignorance, while we weren't aware of proofs nor did they present those proofs as they themselves are unaware of the, while the true religion would forbid testifying to a religion without knowledge.

I understand - religious people are insincere to the truth.

I understand, you see me as just another one of these self-deceiving people who immerse themselves in love of their flock and do away with the reality of their religions and what they teach.

Or you see me as some rebel against all religious people and say why does he think he is so unique in how he approaches religion?

When we structure ourselves to follow fallible leaders, the whole argument for need of guidance from God comes crumbling down, and we become a bunch of hypocrites paying lip service to the leadership of the Prophets and chosen Guides.

There is no escaping it. Past that, you are probably wondering there others like me who have similar attitude but have come to different conclusions. 

And you are right in all that.

But let us twist this around - suppose there was a way to know the true path humanity must take. Suppose there was a true religion and it has been proven by the one who allowed the mess we are in to happen. That has designated a way out of the garbage that yes he is allowed to happen. Allowed not in the sense didn't try to get us to follow a different way, but allow, in the sense, humans are allowed to fail despite his grace and compassion on us.

Suppose there was a way to recognize the connection and navigators who we are suppose to center our attention on.

Suppose leadership doesn't have to be garbage in and garbage out and same shit all over the place. 

Suppose it was a trust to exalted purified souls who God knew would not swerve left and right from the centre point of ascension.


Wil you mix in garbage and garbage out leaders with the pure souls that have been entrusted with true wisdom and chosen for the task to guide us and connect the verses of God so who can truly recite it as it meant to be recited?

[Fireball]

I don't what it is that you have been smoking.

[Ravenshire]

I don't what it is that you have been smoking.

Quran pages wrapped in Bible pages?!?

[Fireball]

I don't what it is that you have been smoking.

Quran pages wrapped in Bible pages?!?

There should have been a "know" in there, but my my little dog woke me up at 3:40 this morning. I'm one tired guy.

BoT, I really think that you are correct, about the smoking. Better than smoking scorpions, I guess.

smoking scorpions

[Succubus]

Wil you mix in garbage and garbage out leaders with the pure souls that have been entrusted with true wisdom and chosen for the task to guide us and connect the verses of God so who can truly recite it as it meant to be recited?

I'm sure you're a lovely bloke and I say this without my usual snide asides, but hey fella, go and talk to a professional.

[The Grand Nudger]

What religion and religious leaders did to us was wrong.

They indoctrinated us instead of pushing us to see and reflect and to know wisdom by wisdom.

Present tense, what religion and religious leaders -are doing-.  You present a good case example of that, frankly.  Whatever your religion and religious leaders have done to you..is wrong.

Almost every parent called their children to loyalty to some group with some leaders not appointed by God and all that got mixed up with the leaders appointed by God who are just special in name while in practice, it's the fallible non-appointed leaders who are followed.

They pushed us to testify to a religion in ignorance, while we weren't aware of proofs nor did they present those proofs as they themselves are unaware of the, while the true religion would forbid testifying to a religion without knowledge.

Meh, not so much for me.  My parents didn't push me toward a religion or loyalty to some group.   To me, that sounds like fantastically bad parenting.  

I understand - religious people are insincere to the truth.

I worry more about the really sincere ones.  

I understand, you see me as just another one of these self-deceiving people who immerse themselves in love of their flock and do away with the reality of their religions and what they teach.

Or you see me as some rebel against all religious people and say why does he think he is so unique in how he approaches religion?

I see you more as a person who does away with reality - full stop.  Your approach to religion is stereotypical, and hilarious for being such a caricature -of- the stereotype.

When we structure ourselves to follow fallible leaders, the whole argument for need of guidance from God comes crumbling down, and we become a bunch of hypocrites paying lip service to the leadership of the Prophets and chosen Guides.

It's not as if that "argument" had a long way to fall to come crumbling down.  It was already in ruins.  I actually wouldn't blame your fallible religious leaders for that...they're doing the best they can with what they've got..just as you are.  

There is no escaping it. Past that, you are probably wondering there others like me who have similar attitude but have come to different conclusions. 

Not really.

And you are right in all that.

By you, I assume you mean you...because everything above appears to be your own self aggrandizing appraisal.  

But let us twist this around - suppose there was a way to know the true path humanity must take. Suppose there was a true religion and it has been proven by the one who allowed the mess we are in to happen. That has designated a way out of the garbage that yes he is allowed to happen. Allowed not in the sense didn't try to get us to follow a different way, but allow, in the sense, humans are allowed to fail despite his grace and compassion on us.

I'm not sure what religion has to do with any true path humanity must take in the first place.  To be completely honest, the two sound entirely contradictory.  As soon as you start talking ghosts you've completely lost me.  

Suppose there was a way to recognize the connection and navigators who we are suppose to center our attention on.

Suppose leadership doesn't have to be garbage in and garbage out and same shit all over the place. 

Suppose it was a trust to exalted purified souls who God knew would not swerve left and right from the centre point of ascension.

You mean..suppose your religion was anything but what it is?  Sure, that would be nice.  It isn't.  It is what it is. 

Wil you mix in garbage and garbage out leaders with the pure souls that have been entrusted with true wisdom and chosen for the task to guide us and connect the verses of God so who can truly recite it as it meant to be recited?

Obviously not., since I'm not the religious type to begin with...but you seem to have a real talent for it.