Theists: What do you mean when you say that God is 'perfect'?

[WinterHold]

The nature of all of God's Titles/written Names is they remain ambiguous without a light and sight through a witness and guide appointed by him.

The true name of God is a living witness who connects everyone to God.  The beautiful names of God are the ways to God, the navigators to the just city. They perceive the light as is, and are the means to know God.

Even if you list all of God's attributes endless, all they do is remind of a connection we have with source, but the symbols you write remind of something from creation and it's link to the Creator.

The Creator possess all greatness and praise in creation, and all of it belongs to him and is borrowed from him, but the means to truly praise God with middle harmony is by the Leader of the humans and the witness among them.  There is no way to know God but through a living connection who connects the highest reality to the material realm, a( 23 )   It is that of which Allah gives good tidings to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship." And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative.nd connects guidance at all levels, his stations that are found everywhere.

That is why Quran says "Say: no wage/reward do I ask for it except the love of the near kin (of mine)". (part of 42:23).

It is because that love of them as connectors to God means you appreciate the connection to God and love God's greatest gift and favor to humanity mainly guiding them through a revelation with appointed guides to interpret it correctly and manifest its wonders if and only if we center our attention to them and obey them when we are reminded, and seek knowledge regarding it from them when we do not know.

*CORRECTION:

That verse doesn't include the sentence -(of mine)-.
The verse is:

Sura 42, The Quran:
( 23 )   It is that of which Allah gives good tidings to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship." And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative.

So please; twisting verses to suit your opinion is not a decent thing.
So my kinship and your kinship and Osama's cousins are the one meant: kinship. Your family.

[Drich]

In a recent conversation with a theist, I asked what makes something 'perfect'.  Their response was that something is perfect if it is "maximally ideal for its intended purpose."  I see this as basically correct.  What makes something a perfect coffee maker would make that same thing a lousy microwave oven, and vice versa.  It seems that to be perfect, a thing must be in some relation to a purpose or an end or a goal such that it maximally fulfills that end.

I use to say something that wholy meets the standard from which it is judged. which applies here to your definition in the same way. what make a coffee maker perfect make it a flawed micro wave. in that it is the standard and the object being judge's ability to meet said standard.

 But here we come upon a problem, because God doesn't have such. There is no end or purpose or goal which is defined for God.

That's not true God's standard or his defination is being the alpha and omega, the beginning and end to all things. He is the first and the last. He is the great I am. Sure a weak minded person would want to quickly trivialize these things and move on, but we must also honestly consider these things because when asked (by Moses who shall I say sent me) God answered with those things. Meaning knowingly being judged by man at the time, those titles offered would be whole and proved Him perfect. If those words mean nothing now it is because choose to trivialize and devalue that title. an honest person would seek out what those words mean and apply them to God before a rightful judgement can take place.

 

 It would seem at first glance then, that the word simply doesn't apply to God.

because for you perfection is married to "man's pop morality" which at best is a coffee maker to God's microwave.

 If I had a nondescript object on my kitchen counter which had no purpose, what would it mean for me to say that it is 'perfect'?  The best that could be said is that I'm using the word 'perfect' as a superlative, like saying that something is 'super' or 'awesome'.  Yet theists continually assert that their God is 'perfect' and seem to want to mean something more by it than just a superlative, but what do they mean?  Some take the lazy way out and claim that God's perfectness applies to "everything" -- God has all possibilities in the maximal degree, but this is clearly incoherent.

 Again, what makes your assumption of God's perfection unable to comply to "everything" underscores the fact that you do not know what it means to be the alpha and omega/ the beginning and end to all things. It means God's descriptors and titles are based not on a high authority to define or decide who God is. Because as alpha and omega He decides who and what is the standard from which He is judged.

So in essence whatever God is... is perfect, not because he meets judgement to a standard because He as alpha and Omega sets all standards.

An object which contained all perfections (whatever that means) would include perfect justice and perfect mercy. Since justice consists in giving people what they deserve, and mercy consists in giving people less than they deserve, the two can't be perfectly fulfilled at the same time.  So the 'everything' answer is ruled out.

C'on even as pardoxes go this is a weak one.
God is Just because the wage of all sin is death Meaning if you live a near perfect life and sin but once, you will be found not perfect and as a result be separated from that which is perfect for all eternity. That is just, as we are being judged on a scale of perfection. (you don't have to like or agree on what justice is as justice is met by the RULE of law and not feelings of fairness to the law)

God is perfectly merciful because He took that which is perfect and destroyed it in place of all of those who are not perfect, yet wish to be with god for eternity. Now because Christ raised Himself from the dead He too can be part of God's righteous and Just universe.

So what do you mean when you say that God is 'perfect'?

Simple man's answer?

God is the alpha and omega the beginning and end to all things. which makes Him the power that defines perfection, and not subject to be judge by the greater force/morality from which pop culture (coffee maker) identifies with a unique form of perfection.

[Cod]

[quote='Drich' pid='1667049' dateline='1512165541']

because for you perfection is married to "man's pop morality" which at best is a coffee maker to God's microwave.

[quote]

Gods microwave is stuck on defrost, evolved morality or pop morality as you call it IS the standard. Oh Ffs

[Mystic]

The nature of all of God's Titles/written Names is they remain ambiguous without a light and sight through a witness and guide appointed by him.

The true name of God is a living witness who connects everyone to God.  The beautiful names of God are the ways to God, the navigators to the just city. They perceive the light as is, and are the means to know God.

Even if you list all of God's attributes endless, all they do is remind of a connection we have with source, but the symbols you write remind of something from creation and it's link to the Creator.

The Creator possess all greatness and praise in creation, and all of it belongs to him and is borrowed from him, but the means to truly praise God with middle harmony is by the Leader of the humans and the witness among them.  There is no way to know God but through a living connection who connects the highest reality to the material realm, a( 23 )   It is that of which Allah gives good tidings to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship." And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative.nd connects guidance at all levels, his stations that are found everywhere.

That is why Quran says "Say: no wage/reward do I ask for it except the love of the near kin (of mine)". (part of 42:23).

It is because that love of them as connectors to God means you appreciate the connection to God and love God's greatest gift and favor to humanity mainly guiding them through a revelation with appointed guides to interpret it correctly and manifest its wonders if and only if we center our attention to them and obey them when we are reminded, and seek knowledge regarding it from them when we do not know.

*CORRECTION:

That verse doesn't include the sentence -(of mine)-.
The verse is:

Sura 42, The Quran:
( 23 )   It is that of which Allah gives good tidings to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship." And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative.

So please; twisting verses to suit your opinion is not a decent thing.
So my kinship and your kinship and Osama's cousins are the one meant: kinship. Your family.

 Do you want a one on one debate about 42:23 in debate section?

---

Here are other translations:

That is (the Bounty) whereof God gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increas e of good in respect thereof: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service). (Yusuf Ali)

That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful.    (Shakir)

This is the glad news which God gives to His servants, the righteously striving believers. (Muhammad), say, "I do not ask you for any payment for my preaching to you except (your) love of(my near) relatives." Whoever achieves virtue will have its merit increased. God is All-forgiving and Appreciating.(Muhamad Sarwar)

That is the (award) of which Allah gives the good news to those servants who believe and do pious works persistently. Say: ‘I do not ask for any recompense for this (preaching the faith in Messengership), but (seek) love for (my) kindreds (and Allah’s nearness).’ And whoever earns good, We shall increase for him the reward in the Hereafter. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Appreciative. (Dr. Mohammad Tahir Al-Qadri)

That favour is what Allah gives the glad tiding of, to such of His subjects as believe and do righteous deeds. Say, "No reward do I ask of you for this [Message] other than the love of the near and dear ones." And one who does anything good We increase for him the goodness thereof. Allah is indeed forgiving, appreciative of gratitude. (Mohamad Al-Shafi)

   This is God’s good news to His faithful and righteous servants. Mohammad, say: “I do not ask any reward from you [for my “consulting” services of guiding you to the Paradise]. The only thing that I am asking is your love [which does not cost you anything] toward those who are close to me.” Those who do a good deed, I (God) will reward him many folded as I am Forgiving and Appreciative. (Bijan Moeinian)

This is the glad tidings that Allah gives to His worshipers, who believe and do good works. Say: 'For this I ask of you no wage except the love of the (Prophet's) relatives. We will add good to whosoever gains a good deed. Allah is the Forgiving and the Thanker. ' (Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah)

That is the good tidings God gives to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: 'I do not ask of you a wage for this, except love for the kinsfolk; and whosoever gains a good deed, We shall give him increase of good in respect of it. Surely God is All-forgiving, All-thankful.(Arthur John Arberry)

That is what God gives glad tidings of to His servants who believe and do righteous acts. Say, 'I do not ask for it a hire - only the love of my kinsfolk.' And he who gains a good action we will increase good for him thereby; verily, God is forgiving and grateful! (Edward Henry Palmer)

This is what God announceth to his servants who believe and do the things that are right. SAY: For this ask I no wage of you, save the love of my kin. And whoever shall have won the merit of a good deed, we will increase good to him therewith; for God is forgiving, grateful.(John Medows Rodwell)

[KevinM1]

So why did god create anything?

Because that is in His nature to give out of His excess and yet costs Him nothing. It is like seeing a smiling person who makes you smile. They are completely happy prior to your notice and remain happy regardless of how you respond. The pleasure you take from the other person's smile takes nothing away from him.

How can a perfectly complete being have excess? Excess is a manifestation of inefficiency.

[Angrboda]

Two things to note here.  First, this raises the question of what it means to be a 'good' example of the kind of which God is an example.  As noted with Steve, there appears to be some deep circularity here if God is both the specimen of a completed kind of his type, and also the standard setter as to what constitutes the completeness of his kind.

I don’t know if it makes any sense to consider God a species within some other genus. My place-holder thought is that God serves as maximally great all-encompassing category like Plotinus’s mystical notion of “The All” or from the Book of Revelation, “the All in all.” That said, I have to punt on your objection. I’m still puzzling over this issue and will keep your concern in the back of my mind while doing so.

I hope you're not defaulting to the supposition that God is "all things to all men" -- that God embodies all perfections that could possibly be. For reasons already stated, I consider such a construction incoherent. It does not seem that you do, for you suggest that God is in his allness "great", as opposed to simply being pan-everything. Regardless of the concerns of negative theology, we do say positive things about the particularity of God. He is good rather than bad, loving rather than cruel, omnipotent rather than powerless, this rather than that. As such it seems one cannot legitimately duck an argument on the basis that God lacks particularity -- he doesn't. Given that, it is perfectly logical to ask what the consequences of his particularity are. And by that I don't mean simply objections based upon this or that particularity of God, but questions raised based upon the mere fact of particularity itself, qua particularity. As noted previously, theists assert that our values cannot and do not come from the universe itself. If a theist is to justify why God is all loving, and that itself is supposed to be a desirable thing to be, the only place we can turn for that bias is to God himself. But then God's perfections become simply those things which God himself considers to be desirable to be perfect in. We end up with a curious construction in which God's supposed greatness rests upon what he himself considers great. In addition to the fact that this paints God as little more than yet another rationally self-interested being, interested in his own good, it undermines claims that God is great, rather than simply being arbitrarily what he is. Arguments that justify God on the basis of what the composition of 'goodness' is are undermined by the fact that God is the arbiter of what good is, as well as the example. God's particularity seems to be justified in a circular fashion. God becomes great, not because he is truly great, but simply because he thinks himself great.

…second thing to note is that if there is such a circularity involved, it essentially returns us to the starting line with the issue of the enhanced Euthyphro and your solution that God by necessity is morally perfect.

I’m not exactly understanding the objection since I do not see a logical argument being made in the first place. To my mind it is more like a dictionary entry. “The Good” and “God” are synonyms united by Aristotle’s observation in the Nichomochean Ethics that what men should most desire derives from a common source. For Christians, Scripture tells us that we are to "Love the Lord your God above all else." That sounds to me like the highest good.

I would say the true circularity enters when people try to develop ethical theories in the absence of some notion of a single highest good from which all other goods are derived. It has been my position all along that people choose whether or not to recognize that there is a highest Good, something most to be desired, that serves as an arbiter when deciding among various apparent goods, such as between temporary pleasure or loyalty to principle. It is only by choosing to believe there is some kind of highest good that allows people to debate about the relative value of some moral principle versus some other. Otherwise there can be no shoulds.

I think you're tilting at windmills here. It isn't so much that you decry the lack of a foundation in alternate moral theories. They have their own suppositions about the ultimate good -- nature, our species, society, well-being, the planet -- you simply disagree on what the highest good actually is, and whether there is any foundation for considering the specific highest good to be rationally justified. If I'm at all familiar with your arguments, it is that you believe these 'highest goods' are not ultimately justified, whereas God as the highest good supposedly is justified. For the reasons stated above and others, I think that your highest good is no better justified than any of the alternatives. You simply believe it is. And when I asked for your reasons in the Euthyphro response, I believe you said, "[It] just is." How you think that any less arbitrary than any of these other highest goods is a mystery to me. It only becomes worse when I observe that the existence of your highest good is based essentially upon bare assertions made by mortal men scattered throughout the dark recesses of history.

[WinterHold]

*CORRECTION:

That verse doesn't include the sentence -(of mine)-.
The verse is:


So please; twisting verses to suit your opinion is not a decent thing.
So my kinship and your kinship and Osama's cousins are the one meant: kinship. Your family.

 Do you want a one on one debate about 42:23 in debate section?

---

Here are other translations:

That is (the Bounty) whereof God gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increas e of good in respect thereof: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service). (Yusuf Ali)

That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful.    (Shakir)

This is the glad news which God gives to His servants, the righteously striving believers. (Muhammad), say, "I do not ask you for any payment for my preaching to you except (your) love of(my near) relatives." Whoever achieves virtue will have its merit increased. God is All-forgiving and Appreciating.(Muhamad Sarwar)

That is the (award) of which Allah gives the good news to those servants who believe and do pious works persistently. Say: ‘I do not ask for any recompense for this (preaching the faith in Messengership), but (seek) love for (my) kindreds (and Allah’s nearness).’ And whoever earns good, We shall increase for him the reward in the Hereafter. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Appreciative. (Dr. Mohammad Tahir Al-Qadri)

That favour is what Allah gives the glad tiding of, to such of His subjects as believe and do righteous deeds. Say, "No reward do I ask of you for this [Message] other than the love of the near and dear ones." And one who does anything good We increase for him the goodness thereof. Allah is indeed forgiving, appreciative of gratitude. (Mohamad Al-Shafi)

   This is God’s good news to His faithful and righteous servants. Mohammad, say: “I do not ask any reward from you [for my “consulting” services of guiding you to the Paradise]. The only thing that I am asking is your love [which does not cost you anything] toward those who are close to me.” Those who do a good deed, I (God) will reward him many folded as I am Forgiving and Appreciative. (Bijan Moeinian)

This is the glad tidings that Allah gives to His worshipers, who believe and do good works. Say: 'For this I ask of you no wage except the love of the (Prophet's) relatives. We will add good to whosoever gains a good deed. Allah is the Forgiving and the Thanker. ' (Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah)

That is the good tidings God gives to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: 'I do not ask of you a wage for this, except love for the kinsfolk; and whosoever gains a good deed, We shall give him increase of good in respect of it. Surely God is All-forgiving, All-thankful.(Arthur John Arberry)

That is what God gives glad tidings of to His servants who believe and do righteous acts. Say, 'I do not ask for it a hire - only the love of my kinsfolk.' And he who gains a good action we will increase good for him thereby; verily, God is forgiving and grateful! (Edward Henry Palmer)

This is what God announceth to his servants who believe and do the things that are right. SAY: For this ask I no wage of you, save the love of my kin. And whoever shall have won the merit of a good deed, we will increase good to him therewith; for God is forgiving, grateful.(John Medows Rodwell)

I will give you a quick note; but because I'm not like you I will sum it up to the maximum.

The Arabic verse doesn't contain the sentence you included whatsoever, which is
That verse doesn't include the sentence -(of mine)-., neither language on your side nor existence of the sentence.
When something doesn't exist in a book, but you add it anyways, using that the members here don't speak Arabic, is a very desperate and a very low thing.

It's called "forgery", "fraud"...etc.
I never debate a fraud because it's a waste of time.

Again; walls of text aren't the answer for the forgery you just commit, by stuffing the sentence "-(of mine)-" in the verse.

[Mystic]

 Do you want a one on one debate about 42:23 in debate section?

---

Here are other translations:

That is (the Bounty) whereof God gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increas e of good in respect thereof: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service). (Yusuf Ali)

That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful.    (Shakir)

This is the glad news which God gives to His servants, the righteously striving believers. (Muhammad), say, "I do not ask you for any payment for my preaching to you except (your) love of(my near) relatives." Whoever achieves virtue will have its merit increased. God is All-forgiving and Appreciating.(Muhamad Sarwar)

That is the (award) of which Allah gives the good news to those servants who believe and do pious works persistently. Say: ‘I do not ask for any recompense for this (preaching the faith in Messengership), but (seek) love for (my) kindreds (and Allah’s nearness).’ And whoever earns good, We shall increase for him the reward in the Hereafter. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Appreciative. (Dr. Mohammad Tahir Al-Qadri)

That favour is what Allah gives the glad tiding of, to such of His subjects as believe and do righteous deeds. Say, "No reward do I ask of you for this [Message] other than the love of the near and dear ones." And one who does anything good We increase for him the goodness thereof. Allah is indeed forgiving, appreciative of gratitude. (Mohamad Al-Shafi)

   This is God’s good news to His faithful and righteous servants. Mohammad, say: “I do not ask any reward from you [for my “consulting” services of guiding you to the Paradise]. The only thing that I am asking is your love [which does not cost you anything] toward those who are close to me.” Those who do a good deed, I (God) will reward him many folded as I am Forgiving and Appreciative. (Bijan Moeinian)

This is the glad tidings that Allah gives to His worshipers, who believe and do good works. Say: 'For this I ask of you no wage except the love of the (Prophet's) relatives. We will add good to whosoever gains a good deed. Allah is the Forgiving and the Thanker. ' (Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah)

That is the good tidings God gives to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: 'I do not ask of you a wage for this, except love for the kinsfolk; and whosoever gains a good deed, We shall give him increase of good in respect of it. Surely God is All-forgiving, All-thankful.(Arthur John Arberry)

That is what God gives glad tidings of to His servants who believe and do righteous acts. Say, 'I do not ask for it a hire - only the love of my kinsfolk.' And he who gains a good action we will increase good for him thereby; verily, God is forgiving and grateful! (Edward Henry Palmer)

This is what God announceth to his servants who believe and do the things that are right. SAY: For this ask I no wage of you, save the love of my kin. And whoever shall have won the merit of a good deed, we will increase good to him therewith; for God is forgiving, grateful.(John Medows Rodwell)

I will give you a quick note; but because I'm not like you I will sum it up to the maximum.

The Arabic verse doesn't contain the sentence you included whatsoever, which is  
That verse doesn't include the sentence -(of mine)-., neither language on your side nor existence of the sentence.
When something doesn't exist in a book, but you add it anyways, using that the members here don't speak Arabic, is a very desperate and a very low thing.

It's called "forgery", "fraud"...etc.
I never debate a fraud because it's a waste of time.

Again; walls of text aren't the answer for the forgery you just commit, by stuffing the sentence "-(of mine)-" in the verse.

You are the one being deceptive, in the Arabic, the "the near kin" doesn't have to mean "your" or "my" or general way and it's determined by context,  but the Quran gives context throughout speaking of the chosen families of the past, that the Prophets came in form of chosen families, and mentioned the family of Abraham before Ulil-Amr, Surahs and Surahs about the concept of chosen families over and over again,  that it is the most deceptive thing a Muslim can do is say that it's not clearly about the family of Mohammad and God's curse be upon those who have iota of hatred towards the chosen guides appointed by God.

[WinterHold]

I will give you a quick note; but because I'm not like you I will sum it up to the maximum.

The Arabic verse doesn't contain the sentence you included whatsoever, which is  
That verse doesn't include the sentence -(of mine)-., neither language on your side nor existence of the sentence.
When something doesn't exist in a book, but you add it anyways, using that the members here don't speak Arabic, is a very desperate and a very low thing.

It's called "forgery", "fraud"...etc.
I never debate a fraud because it's a waste of time.

Again; walls of text aren't the answer for the forgery you just commit, by stuffing the sentence "-(of mine)-" in the verse.

You are the one being deceptive, in the Arabic, the "the near kin" doesn't have to mean "your" or "my" or general way and it's determined by context,  but the Quran gives context throughout speaking of the chosen families of the past, that the Prophets came in form of chosen families, and mentioned the family of Abraham before Ulil-Amr, Surahs and Surahs about the concept of chosen families over and over again,  that it is the most deceptive thing a Muslim can do is say that it's not clearly about the family of Mohammad and God's curse be upon those who have iota of hatred towards the chosen guides appointed by God.

No; MK.

Let's explain and translate the verse, word by word:

The original Arabic text:
ذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي يُبَشِّرُ اللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ ۗ قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَىٰ ۗ وَمَن يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَّزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ

Translation (google translate is not used):

ذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي: It is
يُبَشِّرُ اللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ :  of which Allah gives good tidings to His servants
الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ ۗ: who believe and do righteous deeds.
قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَىٰ: Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship."
وَمَن يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَّزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ:And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein.
إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ :Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative.

Where is the sentence you speak about?
I literally translated it literally, but I can't see not from close or from far how the explanation you use twisted and stuffed the verse with Shiite stuff!

This verse -literally- is saying that Prophet Mohammed was ordered to tell people to be good to their kinship, and to not ask for cash!

This is exactly why I disbelieved in the Shiite/Sunni schools: they love to forge and twist.

The context is not speaking whatsoever about a certain family? I translated for you, word by word !
Please; stop !

[Mystic]

You are a liar and a deceiver. That is not how Arabic works.