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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 3:36 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 3:38 pm by Whateverist.)
(December 4, 2017 at 7:08 pm)Haipule Wrote: (December 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Anti-theism doesn't care about your translation. The idea is shitty in any language. That you've scrubbed so much from your own "god" leads me to suspect that you're halfway to where I'm at anyway. Get back to me when it';s sound and noise, signifying nothing...and then I'll ask you what could possibly go wrong when people believe in sound and noise that signifies nothing. *Sigh* Let me give you some background "noise". Hundreds of years before Jesus, a man from Greece named Alexander the Great, conquered the world. He demanded that all nations surrender to him in HIS language which was Attic Greek. That language became the language of the world. Attic Greek is itself a dialect of the Classical Greek.
Alexander did this because he knew there was no wiggle room for loop hole and interpretation in his language. After the demise of Alexander, his Attic Greek degraded into local area dialects around the world, including Jerusalem, called Koine Greek. That is the language of the NT.
Koine Greek is highly inflective. It is a root word with alphabet soup telling us the precise inflection of noun declension and verb conjugation. Greek is a precision Swiss watch while English is a sun dial at night with the largest dictionary in the world so that we can explain a thought. "My translations" are the honor of those inflections! The language itself is the interpretation. So PLEASE don't make me a part of that.
"Shitty?" To whom to you give that authority to call anything God, "shitty"? Everything Christian and religion has degraded into shit! Friend, you are self deceived because you do not challenge words. Your whole life is your anecdotal evidence that their is no God. Congratulations!
It seems that you want to defend God but not the institutions which revolve around its worship. Why is that? I mean, what do you think God is (please be as explicit as possible as I truly have no idea) and what do you think people should do differently in their lives based on what you believe?
Also, what did you mean by "anti-theist" when you made this thread?
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 4:04 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 4:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(December 5, 2017 at 3:10 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Okay, this is news to me. A quick google confirms that Jains do condone violence in defense of oneself or one's family (which seems reasonable) and even allow its practitioners to fight in wars in defense of one's nation (which is ambiguous because a Machiavellian preemptive strike might be considered "defense"--this one's a bit bothersome). The killing of children is, of course, inexcusable. I couldn't find mention of it anywhere online. Was this action endorsed by the greater Jain community, or was it a few self-interested "Jains" acting for their own benefit and then justifying it afterward? I'm not opposed to changing my mind about Jains, but I want to know the context in which this event took place.
It was done in the context of an imperial unification in India, with the language of a preemptive strike, not at all outside the norm for the times, but outside the norm of the bill of goods jainism offers - showing that...like any and all other religions, jainism is incapable of delivering the goods when the goods are most needed while simultaneously being broadly supportive of things directly contradictory to the proposed ideology. Religion never stopped a single asshole from doing asshole shit, but it's often helped.
I;m not, in this, expressing a particular aversion to war or killing, only noting that even jainism fails to deliver what it promises, and still manages to gather credibility around itself and an unearned deference born of clever PR. Harris asked a question in ignorance of the history of jainism. Jain extremists looked -exactly- like any other religions extremists. Covered in blood from head to toe and babbling about the righteousness of their cause.
Quote:Edit: And I count Jains as theists, btw. They have a god concept which is different from other religions, but it's still some entity they believe in without evidence.
You can count them as that, but jainism simply doesn't fit the bill. Lost in the dominance of abrahamic monotheism are the subtle differences that have been employed to separate other types of god beliefs -from- theistic god beliefs. Anti-theism is not anti-deism or anti-panpsychism. Big foot and aliens are also entities believed in without evidence. A jains little g gods are liberated souls.... neither creators, maintainers, nor destroyers of this world. They are not personal gods invested in your salvation or redemption. This is what proper theism as a subset of god belief is defined as.
It is this type of belief that I consider to be a poison pill for the human mind, utterly contemptible and devoid of any sufficiently redeeming quality.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 5:07 pm
(December 5, 2017 at 12:04 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: (December 5, 2017 at 1:12 am)Haipule Wrote:
Someone might well ask, "Why would God allow that to happen--again". I would WAG that the reason is to protect us from outside attack and from our own stupid selves. Apparently, He has an independent plan.
The only evidence for God will always be your own life and everything you experience in it and that is the only evidence that will be worth a damn.
My life is evidence for God because, it has been spectacular beyond my dreams as His book promised.
You would wager a guess that a deity has an independent plan? That certainly isn't truth, it's daydreaming.
The only evidence for God will be my own life? Well then, it's no longer just a lack of evidence - there is no god.
Congratulations on your success. But when someone claims to be blessed, they are only being selfish, arrogant, and sociopathically un-caring about the lives of others. My god blessed ME, therefore, I'm better than _____. Why should I care about the children who cry out to god for help every night because they are being beaten and raped? Why should I care about the families who are starving? -- God loves me better than them. Your "good luck" is only coincidence and good luck, and if you brag about it and do not use it to help others, then you are not a good human being. Strawman!
I have used my money to help single women with kids especially Christmas time. And, whenever they need financial help. That's my charity and I gots some girlfriends!
Hey! I writings some songs for church. What do you think?
Demons in the Room.
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Come on all you demons and sing with me!
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Come on demons, I can't hear you!
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Oh come you demons and sing it like you mean it!
That song is most loved by God Himself if you are drinking beer and running around in your underwear. But remember always, it's only funny if they're red.
God Loves You
God loves you, but not as much as He loves me; God loves me, MORE than you.
So Cool Bein' ME (Done to the tune Boss Hoss--The Sonics)
Everybody is jealous of me,
One look and you can see,
With these looks I just can't lose,
Don't you even try to choose.
I get all the honeys and I've never lost 'cause:
It's so cool bein' me...cool bein' me.
I think they're hits!
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 5:36 pm
(December 5, 2017 at 4:04 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Religion never stopped a single asshole from doing asshole shit, but it's often helped.
I'm going to write this one down. You are really good with the one-liners. But you really shine when you use Dollar General to debunk basic economics concepts. Holy shit, was that good! You ought to publish it, preferably in a way that most Redneckistanians can understand.
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 5:39 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 5:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
LOL, I'm glad you appreciated it.
I find it amusing to point out that the supply, as far as that model is concerned...is poor people with a few dollars, whilst the demand is nothing other than the demand for a means by which to fleece them. The exact same case can be made for religion, either in my reversed formulation or by reference to traditional concepts applied to what's known as a religious economy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 6:57 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 7:05 pm by Haipule.)
(December 5, 2017 at 3:36 pm)Whateverist Wrote: (December 4, 2017 at 7:08 pm)Haipule Wrote: *Sigh* Let me give you some background "noise". Hundreds of years before Jesus, a man from Greece named Alexander the Great, conquered the world. He demanded that all nations surrender to him in HIS language which was Attic Greek. That language became the language of the world. Attic Greek is itself a dialect of the Classical Greek.
Alexander did this because he knew there was no wiggle room for loop hole and interpretation in his language. After the demise of Alexander, his Attic Greek degraded into local area dialects around the world, including Jerusalem, called Koine Greek. That is the language of the NT.
Koine Greek is highly inflective. It is a root word with alphabet soup telling us the precise inflection of noun declension and verb conjugation. Greek is a precision Swiss watch while English is a sun dial at night with the largest dictionary in the world so that we can explain a thought. "My translations" are the honor of those inflections! The language itself is the interpretation. So PLEASE don't make me a part of that.
"Shitty?" To whom to you give that authority to call anything God, "shitty"? Everything Christian and religion has degraded into shit! Friend, you are self deceived because you do not challenge words. Your whole life is your anecdotal evidence that their is no God. Congratulations!
It seems that you want to defend God but not the institutions which revolve around its worship. Why is that? I mean, what do you think God is (please be as explicit as possible as I truly have no idea) and what do you think people should do differently in their lives based on what you believe?
Also, what did you mean by "anti-theist" when you made this thread? 1.) My life has always been one of extremes. The present is no exception--it's off the charts and unexplainable. However, when I was 29, I reached an end. Is my life a lie or, is theology a lie? I knew my life wasn't lying. I had been studying Greek for years and being taught by people whom studied Greek in college.
But, I had to know more. I started with the word pistis translated as "faith". But the ecclesiastic usage was nonsensical. I started with the verb so that I could understand the noun and the participle. pistis means trust(trust what you know) not "faith" or "believe". Yet, the church uses the noun as a verb. So, from there theology was unraveling.
Then I got heavy into the grammar and started translating myself and found something beautiful. But, I had to shuck that barnacle encrusted oyster to find that pearl. My life and the bible now make perfect sense but the church is a clusterfuck from the beginning!
2.) Biblically speaking: Jesus IS God and He is man. Jesus plainly says so. God became a man so that He could die on a cross to pay a price for our ransom to our captor Death so that we might have life is His fame. However, that death made man right so, Jesus no longer had to be dead so, He raised the third day.
Jesus also plainly stated that He IS the Father: the Head of the house. We are the house. However, the "monotheistic" church turned God into a Trinity--huh? Now, how does that make sense? Truly, the "Holy Spirit" just means pure-breath. The Greek neuter noun is pneuma-breath. It refers to knowledge/information learned from an exterior source. Whereas, psuchE-breath is internal/instinctive knowledge and it is erroneously translated as "soul".
So the church says, "animals have a soul but, they do not have a spirit". Not realizing that the bible is just saying that animals have an instinctive intellect but, they cannot read a book!
The Trinity is Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and Casper the Friendly Ghost!
To me, Jesus has been a good life long friend. The church however, calls me a "blasphemer"!
3.) I didn't understand anti-theism but, I knew whom to ask. I have a much better understanding now but, it still doesn't make a lot of sense. I understand now the 'why' but, not so much the 'what'.
Added: I am like you. What others do is none of my business until they make it my business. I answer only for myself and make excuses out of no one.
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 7:26 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 7:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(December 5, 2017 at 6:57 pm)Haipule Wrote: 1.) My life has always been one of extremes. The present is no exception--it's off the charts and unexplainable. However, when I was 29, I reached an end. Is my life a lie or, is theology a lie? Do we have to choose? 
Quote:2.) Biblically speaking: Jesus IS God and He is man. Jesus plainly says so. God became a man so that He could die on a cross to pay a price for our ransom to our captor Death so that we might have life is His fame. However, that death made man right so, Jesus no longer had to be dead so, He raised the third day.
-and yet we still die. It seems like a failed transaction.
Quote:3.) I didn't understand anti-theism but, I knew whom to ask. I have a much better understanding now but, it still doesn't make a lot of sense. I understand now the 'why' but, not so much the 'what'.
Well, I'm here for your amusement. The "what" can be succinctly explained by reference to your comment above. Theism has you thinking that killing some jew has redeemed you somehow. Is that what a healthy ideology or concept is supposed to look like?
An anti-theist says "nyet", entirely apart from being wholly false, this is not a healthy concept or ideology. The very belief in such a god has made you a willing accomplice to a crime that never took place and should never take place. I doubt you'd beat some poor rando to death to cover your parking tickets..but once the conceit of a theistic god is applied you consider such scapegoating nonsense piety.
That's "what" anti-theism objects to, in just one example. I expect you, however, like most other believers I've expressed this to, to be incapable of seeing the narrative in this light. "He gave his life" "It was charity" "Gods plan" "No other way to pay the piper". This is the abrogation of moral duty, moral authority, and any semblence of intellectual rigor. Yet another "what" that anti-theism objects to, and yet another thing inherent in theistic beliefs.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 7:42 pm
(December 5, 2017 at 5:07 pm)Haipule Wrote: (December 5, 2017 at 12:04 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:
You would wager a guess that a deity has an independent plan? That certainly isn't truth, it's daydreaming.
The only evidence for God will be my own life? Well then, it's no longer just a lack of evidence - there is no god.
Congratulations on your success. But when someone claims to be blessed, they are only being selfish, arrogant, and sociopathically un-caring about the lives of others. My god blessed ME, therefore, I'm better than _____. Why should I care about the children who cry out to god for help every night because they are being beaten and raped? Why should I care about the families who are starving? -- God loves me better than them. Your "good luck" is only coincidence and good luck, and if you brag about it and do not use it to help others, then you are not a good human being. Strawman!
I have used my money to help single women with kids especially Christmas time. And, whenever they need financial help. That's my charity and I gots some girlfriends!
Hey! I writings some songs for church. What do you think?
Demons in the Room.
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Come on all you demons and sing with me!
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Come on demons, I can't hear you!
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Oh come you demons and sing it like you mean it!
That song is most loved by God Himself if you are drinking beer and running around in your underwear. But remember always, it's only funny if they're red.
God Loves You
God loves you, but not as much as He loves me; God loves me, MORE than you.
So Cool Bein' ME (Done to the tune Boss Hoss--The Sonics)
Everybody is jealous of me,
One look and you can see,
With these looks I just can't lose,
Don't you even try to choose.
I get all the honeys and I've never lost 'cause:
It's so cool bein' me...cool bein' me.
I think they're hits!
I hope you're just having fun pretending to be an asshole, I really do.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 7:54 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 8:20 pm by Haipule.)
(December 5, 2017 at 7:42 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: (December 5, 2017 at 5:07 pm)Haipule Wrote: Strawman!
I have used my money to help single women with kids especially Christmas time. And, whenever they need financial help. That's my charity and I gots some girlfriends!
Hey! I writings some songs for church. What do you think?
Demons in the Room.
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Come on all you demons and sing with me!
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Come on demons, I can't hear you!
"Worthy of praise is the Lord". Oh come you demons and sing it like you mean it!
That song is most loved by God Himself if you are drinking beer and running around in your underwear. But remember always, it's only funny if they're red.
God Loves You
God loves you, but not as much as He loves me; God loves me, MORE than you.
So Cool Bein' ME (Done to the tune Boss Hoss--The Sonics)
Everybody is jealous of me,
One look and you can see,
With these looks I just can't lose,
Don't you even try to choose.
I get all the honeys and I've never lost 'cause:
It's so cool bein' me...cool bein' me.
I think they're hits!
I hope you're just having fun pretending to be an asshole, I really do. Yes, I'm just having fun. My clown persona is arrogant asshole because I think arrogance is hilarious. My clown name is M. T. Head (I have no shame)
(December 5, 2017 at 7:26 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (December 5, 2017 at 6:57 pm)Haipule Wrote: 1.) My life has always been one of extremes. The present is no exception--it's off the charts and unexplainable. However, when I was 29, I reached an end. Is my life a lie or, is theology a lie? Do we have to choose?
Quote:2.) Biblically speaking: Jesus IS God and He is man. Jesus plainly says so. God became a man so that He could die on a cross to pay a price for our ransom to our captor Death so that we might have life is His fame. However, that death made man right so, Jesus no longer had to be dead so, He raised the third day.
-and yet we still die. It seems like a failed transaction.
Quote:3.) I didn't understand anti-theism but, I knew whom to ask. I have a much better understanding now but, it still doesn't make a lot of sense. I understand now the 'why' but, not so much the 'what'.
Well, I'm here for your amusement. The "what" can be succinctly explained by reference to your comment above. Theism has you thinking that killing some jew has redeemed you somehow. Is that what a healthy ideology or concept is supposed to look like?
An anti-theist says "nyet", entirely apart from being wholly false, this is not a healthy concept or ideology. The very belief in such a god has made you a willing accomplice to a crime that never took place and should never take place. I doubt you'd beat some poor rando to death to cover your parking tickets..but once the conceit of a theistic god is applied you consider such scapegoating nonsense piety.
That's "what" anti-theism objects to, in just one example. I expect you, however, like most other believers I've expressed this to, to be incapable of seeing the narrative in this light. "He gave his life" "It was charity" "Gods plan" "No other way to pay the piper". This is the abrogation of moral duty, moral authority, and any semblence of intellectual rigor. Yet another "what" that anti-theism objects to, and yet another thing inherent in theistic beliefs. [/quote]
"-and yet we still die. It seems like a failed transaction."
Biblical life and death refers to our right here, right now existence. It's not biological life and death. Some people are the walking dead(I see dead people!) meaning: they have no living life beyond biology. There right here, right now existence is a burning trash heap translated as "hell". You can ask any homeless alcoholic or drug addict what that means.
The right here, right now zOE-life of God's promise is above it all, translated: "heaven" which simply means: sky. So then we have sky people, gE(pronounced gay) land people (aka: "worldly) and trash heaps.
"An anti-theist says "nyet"" Are you a communist? 
"I doubt you'd beat some poor rando to death to cover your parking tickets.."
Dude! I never get tickets! I drive my gift from God, my turbo charged roadster, at 140 mph all the time! God just makes sure the cops are a Dunkin Donuts! Truly, I think I'm invisible to radar.
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RE: Anti-Theism
December 5, 2017 at 9:57 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 9:58 pm by Whateverist.)
(December 5, 2017 at 6:57 pm)Haipule Wrote: (December 5, 2017 at 3:36 pm)Whateverist Wrote: It seems that you want to defend God but not the institutions which revolve around its worship. Why is that? I mean, what do you think God is (please be as explicit as possible as I truly have no idea) and what do you think people should do differently in their lives based on what you believe?
Also, what did you mean by "anti-theist" when you made this thread?
1.) My life has always been one of extremes. The present is no exception--it's off the charts and unexplainable. However, when I was 29, I reached an end. Is my life a lie or, is theology a lie? I knew my life wasn't lying. I had been studying Greek for years and being taught by people whom studied Greek in college.
But, I had to know more. I started with the word pistis translated as "faith". But the ecclesiastic usage was nonsensical. I started with the verb so that I could understand the noun and the participle. pistis means trust(trust what you know) not "faith" or "believe". Yet, the church uses the noun as a verb. So, from there theology was unraveling.
Then I got heavy into the grammar and started translating myself and found something beautiful. But, I had to shuck that barnacle encrusted oyster to find that pearl. My life and the bible now make perfect sense but the church is a clusterfuck from the beginning!
I'm guessing this has to do with why you are defending God, but I'm not sure.
(December 5, 2017 at 6:57 pm)Haipule Wrote: 2.) Biblically speaking: Jesus IS God and He is man. Jesus plainly says so. God became a man so that He could die on a cross to pay a price for our ransom to our captor Death so that we might have life is His fame. However, that death made man right so, Jesus no longer had to be dead so, He raised the third day.
Jesus also plainly stated that He IS the Father: the Head of the house. We are the house.
You mean God was/is this historical guy Jesus born a couple millennia ago? Somewhere in that bible book you love/hate so much it also says Jesus is the way. Are you sure he isn't pointing to his example rather than his historical self? I lean toward interpreting that symbolically rather than literally.
(December 5, 2017 at 6:57 pm)Haipule Wrote: 3.) I didn't understand anti-theism but, I knew whom to ask. I have a much better understanding now but, it still doesn't make a lot of sense. I understand now the 'why' but, not so much the 'what'.
Added: I am like you. What others do is none of my business until they make it my business. I answer only for myself and make excuses out of no one.
So you're signing on to the anti-theist = possessing serious objections to theist ideology? You seem to have serious objections to what mainline Christians believe yourself. Are you an anti-theist?
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