WTF is Spiritual Warfare?

[vorlon13]

Public execution of a woman in Saudi Arabia, I believe, and not hundreds of years ago either . . . .



Wonder what she did? Wear makeup perhaps?

[vulcanlogician]

Your welcome, it's always good to respond to those who are serious about spiritual things even if they do not believe.

In the interest of honesty, I should probably say I don't take such things seriously (see all the joking about it I did above) so much as I respect people who do, and consider their views worth hearing. Even if you are totally wrong about about, say, the historicity of Adam and Eve, that doesn't mean that your perspective doesn't have anything to offer. When a Christian starts thinking, they are capable of producing insights just like any atheist-- despite the fact that they are wrong about God .

No they are not misplaced, I've never seen a demon possessed person that I'm aware of, I'm sure it happens, we've been given examples in the scriptures. Laying on of hands can be for physical or spiritual needs, but if the person who is in need is not willing then God most likely will not give the needed healing or blessing.

It seems that Christian missionaries have failed at their duty then. Despite the fact that they converted whole villages in Africa to Christianity, I'm willing to bet that God heals the maladies of atheists in the United States and Europe at a higher rate than he does Christian children in African villages. If only these children were willing to receive God! They must be pretty unwilling if they are beaten out by pretty much all atheists in the first world. Again, must be a failure of the missionaries in convincing them to accept Christ. (All sarcasm aside, just pointing out that you and I see causation differently.)

No I'm not redefining spiritual warfare, I'm saying that the spiritual battle for most Christians is with themselves and not necessarily with Satan or a demon.

Ok, here is something we may agree on if I don't take you too literally. Sometimes people have "life problems" which can be traced to their own patterns of behavior or personal moral outlook. For example, a person may be a selfish asshole who doesn't see anything wrong with committing acts of theft or violence. You and I can agree that theft and violence are immoral. But where we may disagree is how one might address these problems.

You prescribe belief in Jesus or various Christian practices to spur an inner metamorphosis in such an individual. That represents moral growth in your book, doesn't it? But check out my solution: stop stealing and committing violence-- learn respect for others. I know, I know, I left out the bit about the sky fairy, but there are other ways to get to the end goal. Perhaps by working with a psychologist or a concerned family member. Maybe by making an honest reassessment of oneself. These things happen all the time, and its often independent of conversion to religion. 

I'm sure you think morality is better than immorality, right? Isn't God pleased when a person stops stealing, regardless of the circumstances? Or is it only certain circumstances when cessation of theft appeals to him? Seems rather cheap, trivial, and (quite frankly) amoral to dismiss genuine moral growth in people simply because they are nonbelievers. On the other hand, in the case of the convert, I think the general attitude among believers is that by accepting Jesus, he's on the right path, regardless if any cessation of theft or violence takes place at all. To me, this approach doesn't emphasize the key component: genuine moral growth. It makes the mistake of associating morality with some other thing, working on that other thing, and then hoping that some kind of moral growth transpires. Why not just work directly with morality?

Yes I can see that nonbelievers would see this as an oddity but the truth is it's real. Satan doesn't need to worry much about nonbelievers because they have put themselves into the position of denial and thus lost to an eternal life with God. The last thing Satan wants nonbelievers to know is that he is real, if they did then they might just seek out God.

Interesting perspective, I'll give you that. All that stuff about demonic possession in the NT, to myself and many others, represents a primitive understanding of epilepsy, mental illness, disease, etc. All that spooky stuff about demons is kind of a deal-breaker for me. I do not accept that supernatural events transpire, in the same way that you don't accept the supernatural events of Hindu scriptures.

But I guess you're not concerned that it's a deal-breaker for me. To you, it's real. At least you can see why I'm skeptical.

[brewer]

Public execution of a woman in Saudi Arabia, I believe, and not hundreds of years ago either . . . .



Wonder what she did?  Wear makeup perhaps?

Just remember, the good guys always wear white. Not sure what green is, maybe save the whales.

[vulcanlogician]

Ninja Turtles.