Why I'm not a terrorist

[WinterHold]

But no one died and made you "pope" ( or whatever.)  It is your fellow co-religionists who disagree with you.

I think all theists are wrong.  Got it now?

I get that you made your choice. But I must transfer my findings about this case, just like any researcher would do. If I could change the views of 1 person about the reality as I see it; I'll consider myself lucky. Sunnies and Shiites preach their views; I preach mine. People get to read and decide or just ignore and keep going.

Or stay atheist as in your case.
But when somebody take out a sword to chop my head when I preach my views; which don't hurt him or call to hurt him; I know something is totally wrong.

[Minimalist]

I am reading the Bible right now, and I find it amazing the chronology and how things are stated leading to one chapter to the next.

That is the case with most novels.  As a matter of fact the bible is particularly poorly written in that regard.

[Mystic]

I am reading the Bible right now, and I find it amazing the chronology and how things are stated leading to one chapter to the next.

That is the case with most novels.  As a matter of fact the bible is particularly poorly written in that regard.

Novels are very explicit. The Bible in the way it alludes and to see the connection of flow of one chapter to the next as far Genesis and Exodus goes, you have to understand what the proper religion is at all times.  And its easy if you just analyze the clear text beyond just a story of the past.

If you read it like stories, you don't see the flow. The same is true of the Quran.

Wow I am realizing there is a great sorcery perhaps regarding many holy books through the earth, I haven't read, that are just ignored by their supposed devotees, followers, and believers.

[WinterHold]

It's interesting to think how different I would or wouldn't be if I was raised without religion and currently had no religion.

Obviously I'm sure I wouldn't be killing anyone lol. But would i be different in any way? If so, how? It's always interesting to try to think how much of you is nature vs nurture, and how much is influenced by your beliefs.

Hey; if religion is your code of ethics; then it has an influence on you. Take concepts like charity, I'll know that religion affected somebody if I saw them giving.
Fear of hell must've prevented you from doing some stuff at least; right? it did in my case.

[Fake Messiah]

That's why I'm not a terrorist.
Islam NEVER calls for terrorism against the innocent.

Sura 8, Verse 61.

It depends what you or they define as "innocent", doesn't it? Like non-Muslims (infidels) are not innocent in many of the Muslim's eyes and they may simply answer your verse with other verses:

[WinterHold]

That's why I'm not a terrorist.
Islam NEVER calls for terrorism against the innocent.

Sura 8, Verse 61.

It depends what you or they define as "innocent", doesn't it? Like non-Muslims (infidels) are not innocent in many of the Muslim's eyes and they may simply answer your verse with other verses:

The verse is very explicit and straight forward in defining what "innocence" means:

Sura 8, The Quran:
( 61 )   And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.

If a person inclines to peace; a Muslim is forbidden from fighting them, because the verse said so.

As for the picture you posted:

The "left hand side" of the picture you posted, is Hadiths.
The "right hand side" is Quran, malformed and twisted utterly. Some entries are not even Quran

For example; Verse 190 of Sura 2 actually says:

Sura 2, The Quran:
( 190 )   Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

In the post I posted the link to below, I specified why Muslims should never follow the Hadith:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-52735-p...pid1676267

So that picture is quite a xenophobic, Islamophobic that misinterpret the Quran; and even contains verses that don't exist (just like we saw with Sura 2, Verse 190).
And without the Hadith (which makes up the whole left hand side), that picture will be quite empty..so as the argument against the Quran; with all due respect to you, FM.

[AFTT47]

You know what Atlas, GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

Thank you. But I don't want to touch my prostate gland in the meanwhile. My ass is....full of shit in the meanwhile.
I mentioned 2 other factions that carried on terrorism: the Jewish Sicarii and the Muslim Ottoman Pashas.

Listen, I'll respect your viewpoint as well as anybody else's but you have to make a case for it if you're going to make an inflammatory remark like that.

What would you have had the U.S. government do in WWII? The Japanese attacked US, remember? They had lost the war at the point but they were NOT willing to agree to any terms of surrender at that point without such a dramatic event such as the nuclear attacks. I'll fully admit that those attacks were a human tragedy but the situation had been researched. If we were forced to attack the Japanese homeland in the conventional way in order to bring a close to the war, the body count would have been far worse. Look it up. What were we to do?

I'm not a fan of US (or any other kind of imperialism). Perhaps the US could have avoided the war in the first place with better behavior. History isn't my subject but as far far as I know, the Japanese of that era were evil bastards. I think we all needed to improve and still need to improve. But the Japanese brought their fate down upon themselves. The cost was high but they learned from their mistakes quite well. They rose again and this time became one of the most prominent and respected powers on the planet for peace.

When ISIS blows up a location in the west, they make the same generalization you made in the bold part.
They generalize too; and take every westerner for the sins of the U.S army.

Because the U.S army bombed a neighborhood in Iraq; ISIS beheads a westerner, and accuse ALL WESTERNERS of being the American pilot that carried on the neighborhood bombing.

That is terrorism in a nutshell.

The Japanese army was evil, the Japanese army ALONE needed to be nuked. Not the civilians of Nagazaki and Hiroshima.
What is the sin of Japanese infants? do you claim that every bombed infant made their choice; or were even conscious and mature mentally at the time of bombing?

Your standards for definition are soaked in nationalism with all due respect. You don't take humans for their own personal deeds; you take humans for the deeds of others. That is called "double standards". With all due respect.

For starters, it's the Japanese MILITARY - not Army. "Army", is NOT a generic replacement for, "Military." Army is a specific type of military (ground pounders, infantry).

Yes, you can make a case that it was the Japanese military that was evil in WWII. Those military members were drawn from the general population, though. The general consensuses among the population was that they were a superior race.

Most notably, you ignored the point that the US studied the option of invading the Japanese mainland in the conventional way and concluded that it would be a blood bath which far exceeded the body count of ending the war by bombing major cities. Even then, we COULD have just as easily dropped Little Boy or Fat Man on Tokyo which would have been vastly more devastating. We didn't. We took the option which we believed would end the war with the least amount of casualties.

Listen, I'm far more attached to the human race as a whole than to any nationalistic state - especially now that my fellow idiots have elected a bloviating ignoramus as President of this country. It's embarrassing. But I'm not going to lie down and accept your horseshit that our bombing of Japanese cities during WWII was terrorism. That claim is fucking HORSESHIT!

This time, don't ignore the point that we studied the option of ending the war in the conventional way and concluded that it would be more bloody than doing what we did. We were warred upon by another nation and we ended it in a way that was as merciful as we knew how. Any other option than the one we took would have resulted in a higher body count. So once again, I invite you to attempt what is admittedly anatomically impossible.

I'm no mindless patriot. My aleigence is to humanity. But I will not sit still while you make a bogus claim that my government engaged in terrorism in WWII. We were attacked by a foreign power and responded in the most merciful way we knew how. We could have annihilated the Japanese and every other country on the planet. We were the only country with nuclear technology at that time. We could have ruled over the world with the an iron fist if we had wanted to but we didn't. So show some respect.

[Fake Messiah]

So that picture is quite a xenophobic, Islamophobic that misinterpret the Quran; and even contains verses that don't exist (just like we saw with Sura 2, Verse 190).

So that picture only puts how famous Quranic scholars interpret Quran (and in the case of Sura 2, Verse 190 scholars Al-Tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir) and is Islamophobic?!!

I think that should be a lesson to you that not everybody interprets Quran as you do. Here is that page from a Quran widely promoted by the Saudi government and is now reportedly the most widely disseminated Koran in the English-speaking world via Islamic bookstores, so let's not pretend that it doesn't exist.



And who do you think Muslims will listen: people like Al-Tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir that are considered respectable scholars among Muslims or some guy on the net?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If Islam called for terrorism or the hurting of innocents; I will lose all respect to its author, making me an enemy of the faith.
Believe it or not; I'm willing to go that far -and I think I already did with the Hadith books-.

When I saw that Islam in its Sunni and Shiite versions alike, is bringing down humans to a level lower than imaginable in terms of mercy and respect to other human beings, I lost any respect the sects. That started my current belief.

If I lost respect to the author due to unjustified commands, I will become an enemy of that author.
But until now; every verse made me respect him more and more. I'm grateful that the faith led me to criticize murder, stuff like tactical bombing and nuclear bombing.

Without the religion; I would've been a different person. I have a softer heart due to it; I like that.
I'm sorry for you being a victim of terrorism; Boru.

Delighted to hear your answer.  So, it seems that you would be against terrorism even if you lost faith in Islam.  So, you aren't actually anti-terrorism because of what the Quran says about it, you're anti-terrorism irrespective of what the Quran says about it.  Good to know.

Boru

[Catholic_Lady]

It's interesting to think how different I would or wouldn't be if I was raised without religion and currently had no religion.

Obviously I'm sure I wouldn't be killing anyone lol. But would i be different in any way? If so, how? It's always interesting to try to think how much of you is nature vs nurture, and how much is influenced by your beliefs.

Hey; if religion is your code of ethics; then it has an influence on you. Take concepts like charity, I'll know that religion affected somebody if I saw them giving.
Fear of hell must've prevented you from doing some stuff at least; right? it did in my case.

Not fear of Hell per se, but the belief that doing it was immoral.

But I'm not sure how different my morals would be if I was irreligious. My morals came from religion, yes, but they all still do make logical sense to me because of natural law and how the world works.