Hubble's Law in the Quran long before Hubble's own discovery

[WinterHold]

1) I believe that all of outer space is just one heaven; AKA the lowest heaven:



We inhabit the lowest of the skies.

2-God is everywhere.


His hands are literally a metaphor. If he is everywhere, then  what is he? a force? a material? I don't know.
There is this interesting verse, though:

3-Yes. Life is a beautiful thing, but in general, but this life is so ugly, full of death and misery, it's a test that's why. There is another universe coming. Some theists call it the afterlife, science even predicted it in some theories about parallel universes, and the Quran promised it will come:

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In the verse, the word is "expand"=موسع
Expanding is not "stretching"=شد

In other words; you can say in Arabic:
البنطلون مشدود
The pants are stretched

But it will mean something totally different if you used "expand":
البنطلون موسع
The pants are expanded

Actually; if I go to a clothe shop and I want to "tighten my pants" I will never use the word "expand".
Heavens are expanding. Not shrinking. That's why theories like "The Big Freeze" are there.

To be precise, it means widened AFAIK. Wase3 = wide. I know Arabic, too. At least today's Arabic, and not the archaic Quranic Arabic.

Still, you didn't really address what I said in previous post. It doesn't matter if it's "stretched" or "widened", there's no miracle in there.

I took my language from Wahhabi schools (SA), there were subjects for the classical Quran Arabic "Fos7a"; Arabic Grammar "نحو وقواعد"  and "tafseer"
Sad days TBH. Ekte2ab. Where are you from, Grendizar? and I can detect the iconic anime name in your username .. هيا طر يا جرندايزر


:p

The source is "wide".
The verb is "expand". To "make something wider", you "expand it". The act of "expansion" is different from the

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Atlas, can I come to your mosque and preach sex, drugs, and rock and roll?

Treat it as you will treat any other spot: does it have rules that allow for sex and drugs kind of speech?
Since schools have rules that porhibit such behavior (and speaking about sex in an elementary school for example can send you behind bars for a very long time), there are tight rules sorrounding different places everywhere. So mosques are the same.

Though; it's totally allowed for people to build a rock and roll stage in the shape of a mosque. But I will not go there, Muslims must also not go there, and the invisible God we worship as Muslims would judge the people who built the rock and roll mosque.

Just like in the time of Mohammed peace be upon him:

Sura 9, The Quran:
( 107 )   And those who took for themselves a mosque for causing harm and disbelief and division among the believers and as a station for whoever had warred against Allah and His Messenger before. And they will surely swear, "We intended only the best." And Allah testifies that indeed they are liars.
( 108 )   Do not stand [for prayer] within it - ever. A mosque founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy for you to stand in. Within it are men who love to purify themselves; and Allah loves those who purify themselves.
( 109 )   Then is one who laid the foundation of his building on righteousness [with fear] from Allah and [seeking] His approval better or one who laid the foundation of his building on the edge of a bank about to collapse, so it collapsed with him into the fire of Hell? And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.
( 110 )   Their building which they built will not cease to be a [cause of] skepticism in their hearts until their hearts are stopped. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

I will do what God told Mohammed to do: I will not pray ever in such a mosque.
But my own mosque has rules, that you should respect just like you would respect any rules in other buildings.

[polymath257]

I'd love to see how it deals with the relativistic corrections.

[GrandizerII]

I took my language from Wahhabi schools (SA), there were subjects for the classical Quran Arabic "Fos7a"; Arabic Grammar "نحو وقواعد"  and "tafseer"
Sad days TBH. Ekte2ab. Where are you from, Grendizar?

But fos7a today is different from Quranic fus7a. I used to do really well with qawa3ed, but it's been a while and I forgot a lot of the rules unfortunately.

As for where I'm from, ana Libnani.

[Cyberman]

Here's a thought.

Instead of scouring your magic book to find bits that can be sort of twisted to retrofit things we already know, how about trying to find what it says about the next big discovery? Something we haven't discovered for ourselves through actual science yet? Wouldn't that be a better use for the thing?

You never know, you might come up with a cure for cancer, or spacewarp physics or something. Pointing at mythology, squinting a bit and saying "ha ha, we found it first but nobody noticed until we knew what to look for" doesn't help very much.

[Brian37]

The verse says:

Sura 51, The Quran:
( 47 )   And the heaven We constructed with hands, and indeed, We are expanding.

Sura 42, The Quran:
( 1 )   Ha, Meem.
( 2 )   'Ayn, Seen, Qaf.
( 3 )   Thus has He revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and to those before you - Allah, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
( 4 )   To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth, and He is the Most High, the Most Great.
( 5 )   The heavens almost break from above them, and the angels exalt [Allah] with praise of their Lord and ask forgiveness for those on earth. Unquestionably, it is Allah who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.
( 6 )   And those who take as allies other than Him - Allah is [yet] Guardian over them; and you, [O Muhammad], are not over them a manager.

Things "break" when they are "expanded"?

How did Mohammed know that heaven was expanding?
If we assumed ignorance and lying of the author of the Quran; why would they refer explicitly to such a fact?
Even a nomad Muslim in the desert 1400 years ago, would know that the skies (universe) is expanding. Not just that; actually saying otherwise defies the verse above.
The universe is expanding, by the direct statement of verse 47 of Sura 51 in the Quran, and the implicit referring by verse 5 of Sura 42

Long before Hubble's discovery. 1400 years approximately.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble%27s_law

Hubble's law is considered the first observational basis for the expansion of the universe

The verse in Arabic:

والسماء بنيناها بأيد وإنا لموسعون

How long have you been on this website?

You should know better.

Islam isn't the only religion that has apologists whom try to square science with their holy writings.

GOOGLE THE FOLLOWING..

"Christian science"

THEN

"Jewish Science"

THEN

"Buddhist science"

THEN

"Hindu science"


EVERY RELIGION pulls this crap. When the club member cant simply plug their club, they either try to debunk science, then when they cant do that, they try to retrofit modern science to ambiguous words in old mythology.

It does not work for ANY religion, because scientific method is RELIGION NEUTRAL and is a tool. It is not there to prop up any religion.

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Buddha's writings, the Vedas, the Jewish OT, the bible, nor the Koran, knew anything about MODERN science which explains expansion.

If "expansion" constituted exact formulas, then by that logic, the ancient Greeks knew what quarks, and protons and neutrons and electrons were because they created the word "atom".

Using the word "expansion" means NOTHING in terms of modern knowledge.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Atlas is a poe.

[WinterHold]

Here's a thought.

Instead of scouring your magic book to find bits that can be sort of twisted to retrofit things we already know, how about trying to find what it says about the next big discovery? Something we haven't discovered for ourselves through actual science yet? Wouldn't that be a better use for the thing?

You never know, you might come up with a cure for cancer, or spacewarp physics or something. Pointing at mythology, squinting a bit and saying "ha ha, we found it first but nobody noticed until we knew what to look for" doesn't help very much.

100 years ago, this was "new things" that nobody ever knew.
The scientific community said that space is static up until 1922, and that's the earliest record for such a fact being derived from the equations of general relativity.

1400 years ago, the Quran said that. And instead of having faith, many advocated stories of flying horses mentioned in the Hadith. Look where these people are now.

The Quran is not a manufacturing guide, or a book of cosmology and science. It's a message.
Then again; it spoke about an afterlife where creation will get repeated. Many laughed at the thought through time, until science found out that it's a real actual possibility.

I think it already said a lot. And already people lost the chance to concentrate on what it says a lot.

[DLJ]

...
The Quran is not a manufacturing guide, or a book of cosmology and science. It's a message.
...

Nope. It's an excuse.

[Brian37]

Atlas is a poe.

No he is not. I like him. I also like Catholic lady. But in both cases, I say the same thing. "That was then this is now". Humans made horrible guesses back then, and it turned into religion. But today, because most humans get sold religion at birth old habits are hard to break. The thought of being finite for most humans frightens them. I don't think it should, but it does, and that fear ends up in the form of religion.

I think most humans are good, even though I think their logic sucks.

I'll still take a liberal theist over a conservative hate filled nutcase, and they exist in every religion.

[Cyberman]

Congratulations, Atlas, for making your claim unfalsifiable. And that's not a good thing.

...
The Quran is not a manufacturing guide, or a book of cosmology and science. It's a message.
...

Nope. It's an excuse.

Yep. This whole thing is a babyish game of "nuh-uh, I said it first so I win!", hiding behind the pretend shield of authority.

Sorry, but most of us outgrew shit like that when we got out of nappies (diapers, for the USians). It's a message, alright - it says that some people have a lot of catching up to do.