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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 12:46 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2018 at 12:57 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(January 16, 2018 at 12:29 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Pure revisionism
Which parts do you feel are not represented accurately in my commentary?
(January 16, 2018 at 12:45 pm)Shell B Wrote: (January 16, 2018 at 12:29 pm)wallym Wrote: The dumb bitch part is the implication in the narrative (overall, not specifically you in this thread). The unspoken answer to the 'why didn't she just say no and leave?' is that she's a dumb bitch. It's why she's being attacked rather than sympathized with. She needs to be dehumanized to make it okay so people can keep liking Parks and Rec and Master of None. Again, not necessarily you, but I think this is the crux of the overall narrative. And another group needs to dehumanize her to justify the actions, because they do the same thing.
Louis CK got verbal consent, I believe, before he pulled out his dick. But even that wasn't really. He just knew that put on the spot, they'd probably not stand up to him.
I just don't believe 'be assertive' is as easy as people make it sound. How many people don't ask for raises, or cave when asked to work overtime, or don't report sexual harassment, or stay in bad relationships, or get taken advantage of by friends, and on and on and on and on and on.
Which brings me back to my original point, if you're a passive person, do you deserve what you get when someone takes advantage of you? It doesn't seem like that should be the case.
Here's the thing, "deserve" isn't the word I would use. Still, being assertive has to be part of your sexual exploration if you're going to get naked with a guy after the first date. At the very least, that's what we need to be teaching girls and women, instead of that they can mutter something about being uncomfortable and that makes them violated. There is another group in this overall narrative that you speak of. We're the people who think that adults are responsible for their sex lives. In my case, I think that 1: bail if the dude is so creepy that you're going to cry for an hour afterward and 2: don't put a guy on blast when you know the whole WORLD will demonize him and you because you had a creepy, unsatisfactory first date. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
This exactly. I never said he didn’t act like a total jerk, but I don’t think he deserves his entire career in ashes. Louie CK was abusing his power. I fail to see how this was an abuse of power in any form.
Edit:
@Pool, absolutely. I was not implying that once a woman engages in any type of sexual activity, that’s consent going forward. That’s not what I meant. Obviously a woman can say no at any time, including in the middle of intercourse.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 12:55 pm
I don't even know anymore if this is about Aziz Ansari failing to pick up on the cues and not just him deluding himself into thinking he could have the girl cave in and have sex with him if he just kept ignoring her discomfort. It could be a combination of both.
Keep in mind this is Aziz Ansari, not some low functioning person who cant even get up on stage to do comedy or act or write a book about romance.
I'm on the autism spectrum myself, but even I know when to stop when a clear nonverbal "no" is being expressed. And the excerpts Tizheruk posted clearly show she was rejecting his sexual advances from the start, but failing to be assertive due to whatever factors. She may have initially wanted to spend some romantic time with him, but he was clearly not interested in just nice and romantic, and was sticking his fingers repeatedly down her throat without checking if she was ok with that. That's not innocence/naivete anymore. That's, at best, being a creep.
Also, she did clearly state halfway she didn't want to have sex, and yet Aziz still expected to have sex with her that night.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 12:55 pm
Who was the woman? I wouldn't want that happening to a family member or any woman but It's confusing. Why are you hanging out with creepy celebs naked in their apartments? If you know you're going to regret it, rather don't go for the fame and money, and go for a guy you are actually interested in.
And then she's still shy on top of it. I mean not shy enough to go broadcast this to the whole world but shy enough to give blowjobs when she doesn't want to. Crazy. We need to raise better boys and girls. I'll add it to my to do list. Girls stop attention seeking and gold digging, boys stop sexually bullying and being creepy.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 1:10 pm
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 1:14 pm
(January 16, 2018 at 12:14 pm)Mermaid Wrote: (January 16, 2018 at 12:12 pm)alpha male Wrote: I was replying to pool's point on non-verbal communication. In that context, yes, she consented.
Are you sure she consented?
Are you saying that allowing someone to take off your clothes is consent to have sex?
You're continuing to ignore the context of my comment.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 1:16 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2018 at 1:19 pm by ErGingerbreadMandude.)
@lfc, I was actually directing that towards Am, he said "she took off her clothes what does that non verbally communicate" so my point was that even if she agreed in the beginning if there is discomfort in between they should stop. The only problem is everyone is complaining and blaming the chick cos the chick didn't say "no" out loud but everybody is ignoring she didn't say "yes I consent" in the beginning either? It's because people don't actually say "yes I consent" or "no I don't consent" out loud, that'd be weird. I mean, yeah, some chicks will say "stop" but some won't, that doesn't excuse the guy not being able to read that non verbal no when he was so adept at reading the non verbal yes.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 1:16 pm
(January 16, 2018 at 12:25 pm)pool the matey Wrote: Remove all context and in a vacuum if someone allows someone else to take off their clothes then it is not consent to have sex but the context here is obviously different and so is the situation, obviously in this context in that situation taking off their clothes is "non verbal" consent. There's no questioning that. So two things :
1) guy could read the non verbal cues when she gave consent but suddenly became autistic when she gave non verbal cues to stop? Also, didn't you guys read her text reply? "hey had a good time with you" is so textbook I can't believe you guys couldn't see it, guys send that so the girl will reply something positive then he will have insurance if in the future she raises a complaint he can just show the text but instead her reply was negative.
2) just because she consented in the beginning doesn't mean she can't say stop at any time in between
And when she did actually say stop, I believe he did.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 1:19 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2018 at 1:20 pm by GrandizerII.)
(January 16, 2018 at 12:55 pm)SaStrike Wrote: Who was the woman? I wouldn't want that happening to a family member or any woman but It's confusing. Why are you hanging out with creepy celebs naked in their apartments? If you know you're going to regret it, rather don't go for the fame and money, and go for a guy you are actually interested in.
What an insensitive thing to say. Maybe she did like him, and in fact she clearly did like him, and was expecting some nice and romantic time (with perhaps some sex later) that night. And if you take a look at him, you can see he doesn't look creepy, but rather innocent and cute (maybe ... I'm trying to see this from a woman's perspective). So it's not like she expected to end up having such a crappy night with him, and crying when she left.
And yes, she had problems with being assertive at that moment, but why victim blame?
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 1:20 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2018 at 1:21 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(January 16, 2018 at 12:14 pm)Mermaid Wrote: (January 16, 2018 at 12:12 pm)alpha male Wrote: I was replying to pool's point on non-verbal communication. In that context, yes, she consented.
Are you sure she consented?
Are you saying that allowing someone to take off your clothes is consent to have sex?
No. He's saying it's a non verbal cue.
As the article I posted says, if you're going to rely solely on men picking up your "non verbal cues" to try to figure out whether or not you're wanting to get sexual, you better consider ALL the non verbal cues you're sending. Otherwise, use words.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 16, 2018 at 1:38 pm
(January 16, 2018 at 1:19 pm)Grandizer Wrote: (January 16, 2018 at 12:55 pm)SaStrike Wrote: Who was the woman? I wouldn't want that happening to a family member or any woman but It's confusing. Why are you hanging out with creepy celebs naked in their apartments? If you know you're going to regret it, rather don't go for the fame and money, and go for a guy you are actually interested in.
What an insensitive thing to say. Maybe she did like him, and in fact she clearly did like him, and was expecting some nice and romantic time (with perhaps some sex later) that night. And if you take a look at him, you can see he doesn't look creepy, but rather innocent and cute (maybe ... I'm trying to see this from a woman's perspective). So it's not like she expected to end up having such a crappy night with him, and crying when she left.
And yes, she had problems with being assertive at that moment, but why victim blame?
They're both to blame and I see no victims. Just my opinion. I don't care if his career is damaged he isn't a victim.
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