Western terrorism.

[Abaddon_ire]

The middle East needs to start criticizing its own history. This is a religious problem, because so much of its history is tied up in religion.

Criticize how, when the Arab regimes -which are backed by either the West or Russia-are putting the sword on our necks?
Watch the video I posted to Kemikal.

Criticize the past=revolution. Western regimes doesn't want that. They have "interests" in us being sheep.
Western governments never want us to advance.

Sure. Islam televises gross killing.  Extreme Islam slices the throats of innocents on TV today. That is the barbarism of Islam. Everyone else with even the vagueist modicum of morality grew out of that nonsense centuries ago. Islam is stuck in barbarism. 

Another dark age for you and your kind. That is the desire of Islam these days.

The tragedy is that Islam was once the bastion of science and learning. You and your ilk seek to destroy Islamic learning and wipe it out. And it seems you have succeeded. Islam has become synonymous with ignorant superstition where once, long ago, it was synonymous with erudite learning and scholarship. 

It has nothing to do with western civilisation. Islam happily abdicated the very science which it was instrumental in developing in favour of superstitious bollocks.

The West, OTOH, took the thoughts of Islam and ran with it, developed it, used it. Islam, in contrast, got hijacked by religious cranks and has never recovered from that disaster.

[The Grand Nudger]

The tragedy is that Islam was once the bastion of science and learning. You and your ilk seek to destroy Islamic learning and wipe it out. And it seems you have succeeded. Islam has become synonymous with ignorant superstition where once, long ago, it was synonymous with erudite learning and scholarship. 

The caliphate acquired much of their collected knowledge through conquest and appropriation - huge tracts of it "western knowledge".  Islam, itself..otoh... has never been a bastion of anything but ignorance.

[CapnAwesome]

The middle East needs to start criticizing its own history. This is a religious problem, because so much of its history is tied up in religion.

Criticize how, when the Arab regimes -which are backed by either the West or Russia-are putting the sword on our necks?
Watch the video I posted to Kemikal.

Criticize the past=revolution. Western regimes doesn't want that. They have "interests" in us being sheep.
Western governments never want us to advance.

Because to criticize its history is to criticize Islam. The risk from doing that doesn't come from western governments but from Islamic ones, who will kill you for doing it.

[Abaddon_ire]

The tragedy is that Islam was once the bastion of science and learning. You and your ilk seek to destroy Islamic learning and wipe it out. And it seems you have succeeded. Islam has become synonymous with ignorant superstition where once, long ago, it was synonymous with erudite learning and scholarship. 

The caliphate acquired much of their collected knowledge through conquest and appropriation - huge tracts of it "western knowledge".  Islam, itself..otoh... has never been a bastion of anything but ignorance.

NO, Islam was once a bastion of erudite learning right up until cranks like Atlas got hold of it. Then it all fell apart.

The fundies dragged it kicking and screaming back into the dark ages.

[The Grand Nudger]

Islam never left the dark ages.  It would be a mistake to conflate the religion with the empire.

[Abaddon_ire]

Islam never left the dark ages.  It would be a mistake to conflate the religion with the empire.

Islam is exactly where christianity was 800 years ago. Technically 1400 years ago but Islam threw thinking in reverse about 800 years ago. Up to then, Islam was a bastion of critical thought, science, literature and every human endeavour. Then the fundies took over and promptly threw it all out while the rest of the world moved forward to enlightenment.

Bad and all as was christianity (I'm watching you Pell) at least they came kicking and screaming into the light of reason. Islam chose to instead go backward into the darkness of abject superstition. And now they are stuck. It matters not a whit that some enlightened Islamic scholar might suggest some innocuous amendment, some sect somewhere will call for his/her death. And so any enlightened Islamic scholar will keep their gob shut.

[WinterHold]

Heaven forfend anyone mention that the ummah wore a swastika while you bitch about ww2..... 

An "advanced" middle east would end with nukes being dropped on jews, and just generally anybody else that islam has a long running grudge against.  Hell, it's not as if you really like the advanced parts of the middle east anyway.  You complain about them to no end as well.

The Jews card, combined with the "what if" argument?

Please; we were talking about "100 Million casulaties + a shoe throw at the leader of a deadly invasion". Let's discuss that.
Where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction Iraq was accused to own?

I leave "what if scenarios" for movies like "Back to the future". I'm not discussing movies.

[The Grand Nudger]

@Aba. Islam is a religion, not a place, lol. Find me some time when magic book -wasn't- batshit superstition. Islamists were the authority from the outset, we wrongly credit the empire they ruled with the accomplishments of their conquered subjects who lived under oppression and enforced ignorance from the first invasion until the fall. Neither the abbasid nor the umayyad rode out of the desert equipped with math or science. They acquired them along the way, mostly from greek classics. This isn;t to say that their subjects didn't expand upon either, they did, but there was always a limit to what was or could be acceptable. Ultimately, it was the mongols who ended the islamic golden age when they sacked Baghdad in 1258. Not "The west" as our buddy Atlass here imagines. They never made it to western Europe. This is why Al Andalus was left holding the islamic bag, and how, from the 1200' the 1400's when the last bits of the caliphate were expelled from spain, those same greek classics were rediscovered and retranslated along with whatever new insight from any subject of the dead empire there was to be cleaned. Then, voila, the enlightenment.

It's one thing to acknowledge that the caliphate kept books when europe was burning them..it's another to imagine some other circumstance in which this happened, or forget that the "bastion" of learning within islam was a social class of conquered scribes who had to pay a tax, worse, or exclaim belief. Erudite learning was foreign to islam from the outset. It was tolerated due to the practical necessity of running a massive empire. As soon as the empire vanished, the need vanished, and so did all the erudite learning or any tolerance for it.

@Atlas "Hurr Durr The Great Satan Does All The Things!"

[WinterHold]

Criticize how, when the Arab regimes -which are backed by either the West or Russia-are putting the sword on our necks?
Watch the video I posted to Kemikal.

Criticize the past=revolution. Western regimes doesn't want that. They have "interests" in us being sheep.
Western governments never want us to advance.

Sure. Islam televises gross killing.  Extreme Islam slices the throats of innocents on TV today. That is the barbarism of Islam. Everyone else with even the vagueist modicum of morality grew out of that nonsense centuries ago. Islam is stuck in barbarism. 

Another dark age for you and your kind. That is the desire of Islam these days.

The tragedy is that Islam was once the bastion of science and learning. You and your ilk seek to destroy Islamic learning and wipe it out. And it seems you have succeeded. Islam has become synonymous with ignorant superstition where once, long ago, it was synonymous with erudite learning and scholarship. 

It has nothing to do with western civilisation. Islam happily abdicated the very science which it was instrumental in developing in favour of superstitious bollocks.

The West, OTOH, took the thoughts of Islam and ran with it, developed it, used it. Islam, in contrast, got hijacked by religious cranks and has never recovered from that disaster.

So your justification for the ocean of blood non-believers caused in WW2, is that "Islam televises gross killing." ?
WW2. 100 Million dead. That's the context. Reply to that crime. Justify that evil madness.

---

The tragedy is that Islam was once the bastion of science and learning. You and your ilk seek to destroy Islamic learning and wipe it out. And it seems you have succeeded. Islam has become synonymous with ignorant superstition where once, long ago, it was synonymous with erudite learning and scholarship. 

The caliphate acquired much of their collected knowledge through conquest and appropriation - huge tracts of it "western knowledge".  Islam, itself..otoh... has never been a bastion of anything but ignorance.

Without the heaven Muslims built in Spain; Europe would still be using rivers as mirrors.

---

Criticize how, when the Arab regimes -which are backed by either the West or Russia-are putting the sword on our necks?
Watch the video I posted to Kemikal.

Criticize the past=revolution. Western regimes doesn't want that. They have "interests" in us being sheep.
Western governments never want us to advance.

Because to criticize its history is to criticize Islam.  The risk from doing that doesn't come from western governments but from Islamic ones, who will kill you for doing it.

The Arab government are not Islamic.
There are no Islamic governments today.

---

The caliphate acquired much of their collected knowledge through conquest and appropriation - huge tracts of it "western knowledge".  Islam, itself..otoh... has never been a bastion of anything but ignorance.

NO, Islam was once a bastion of erudite learning right up until cranks like Atlas got hold of it. Then it all fell apart.

The fundies dragged it kicking and screaming back into the dark ages.

No. Until your likes  began coming invading. Or betraying their own and aid invasions.

---

Islam never left the dark ages.  It would be a mistake to conflate the religion with the empire.

Islam is exactly where christianity was 800 years ago. Technically 1400 years ago but Islam threw thinking in reverse about 800 years ago. Up to then, Islam was a bastion of critical thought, science, literature and every human endeavour. Then the fundies took over and promptly threw it all out while the rest of the world moved forward to enlightenment.

Bad and all as was christianity (I'm watching you Pell) at least they came kicking and screaming into the light of reason. Islam chose to instead go backward into the darkness of abject superstition. And now they are stuck. It matters not a whit that some enlightened Islamic scholar might suggest some innocuous amendment, some sect somewhere will call for his/her death. And so any enlightened Islamic scholar will keep their gob shut.

Saudi Arabia is led by dicks who carry the same mentality you hold.
Look at Saudi Arabia, and anybody who follow the so called "enlightenment" crumble and fall.

Just watch. Time is between us.

---

@Aba.  Islam is a religion, not a place, lol.  Find me some time when magic book -wasn't- batshit superstition.  Islamists were the authority from the outset, we wrongly credit the empire they ruled with the accomplishments of their conquered subjects who lived under oppression and enforced ignorance from the first invasion until the fall.  Neither the abbasid nor the umayyad rode out of the desert equipped with math or science.  They acquired them along the way, mostly from greek classics.  This isn;t to say that their subjects didn't expand upon either, they did, but there was always a limit to what was or could be acceptable.  Ultimately, it was the mongols who ended to islamic golden age when they sacked Baghdad in 1258.  Not "The west" as our buddy Atlass here imagines.  

@Atlas "Hurr Durr The Great Satan Does All The Things!"

I leave readers to understand the context of dark ages here.

The post is not about "versions of Islamic history".
It's about the western -especially the American & British- terrorist massacres in WW2.

If you spoke about Iraq war, I'll understand.
Vietnam, maybe..

But I speak to you about that, and your reply for these terrorist war crimes, is criticizing a religion that has nothing to do with the world war, or the western hellish crimes against humanity?????

Stick to the context; please.

[The Grand Nudger]

Isn't it just like an islamist to tell people what they can and can't talk about?  That's never not been true, even in the islamic golden age. For all of your lionization of the caliphate and demonization of the west you can't bring yourself to accept that the former depended upon the knowledge of the latter for it's very existence. Ironic, since it was an improvement over what the islamists possessed..but in that it was still fundamentally wrong in places that wouldn't be discovered until the west resumed the work..as some of the mistakes had been codified as revealed truth in magic book..ensuring that they could never be revised without incurring the wrath of the faithful.

You don't want to talk about ww2 either, to be blunt, if that discussion includes a mention of islamic ss units or the axis reliance upon the fuel reserves they controlled in order to perpetuate it's war machine. Imagine that, if islamists hadn't picked the wrong side due to their abiding hatred of Teh Jew (and all other socio-ethnic undesirables)...ww2 would have been an awful lot shorter with far fewer casualties. Japan was on a fuel timer which, in part precipitated the attack on pearl harbor. Germanys blitzkreig was an army that, itself, marched on a different kind of stomach. Far from being hapless victims, the caliphate was a willing participant.....and how did that turn out for you....? Shitty, amiright.

Take it up with them, not us. We were a global backwater still entrenched in a largely agrarian society before you and yours and all of their aligned interests lost their collective minds. It's by virtue of distance alone that we emerged as a superpower in the aftermath and found ourselves babysitting a bunch of primitives who -still- wanted to kill them some juden, but lacked the ability to do so having been cut off from their nazi benefactors infrastructure and technology.

Not that the remains of the caliphate didn't try again, and fail..again. Some dreams die hard, I guess.